In case you haven't heard...Ed Brayton is all weepy and sad cause I used the word "bitch" when describing that dick Stephanie Zvan. After catching hell from Adam Lee who believes he is entitled to dictate who says what to whom and how atheists spend their time on what. Then hearing about Ed Brayton posting his problems with my choice of words. Ed was so worked up about this important issue he was writing about it instead of concentrating on his recovery from surgery. That's right, it is that important. Let's not forget PZ who took my opinion of Stephanie and turned it into me being a misogynist, sexist, ranting asshole with a shitty radio show who is banned forever from his awesome incredible blog where he launches personal attacks on a regular basis and allows commenters to make up whatever crazy shit they want to about people while he remains silent.( I post on PZ's blog anyways when I am in the mood...shhhh He will never figure it out) Anyhoways, after all that I was thinking maybe I was wrong. It seems like I see/hear lots of people use the word "bitch" in different forms all the time. Many times it isn't gender specific, just like when I used it to describe Stephanie Zvan, leader of the world and co-dictator of proper behavior (along with Adam Lee) I turned to the internet and searched for the answer to my question- Should I be allowing people like Adam Lee to advise me how to speak? I typed in Ed Brayton bitch thinking that the search phrase would possibly lead me to a website where Ed had videos posted of him instructing people how to speak without offending anyone as a large FTB sign flashed in the background...or something like that. I know you will be as shocked as I was to find these results instead-
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2006/08/14/balko-finds-a-gem/
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2007/10/17/gay-marriage-in-prison/#more
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2007/03/27/another-miller-jenkins-case/
WHAT?! Ed Brayton using the SAME WORD he was so critical of me using and the word "shrew"? You would never catch me using that word. Imagine my surprise.The word hypocrite popped into my head...again. Not only that but the cheap shot at gays was...well a cheap shot. If you want to tell me Ed has changed his use of words since these examples then I would answer that by informing you that Ed referred to Renee Hendricks as a "git" just last week.
The guy who owns freethought blogs is just as full of shit as:
How about this blog from PZ Myers where you find the word 'bitch' used 21 times in the comment section. No where do you see PZ telling anyone that they are misogynists. In fact PZ NEVER says ANYTHING about the use of the word at all.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/03/25/a-heartless-faith/
Or if that isn't enough to show PZ is a little selective about who he casts judgement on then watch the last 2+ min of this video
http://youtu.be/a2WamHXAZcA?t=1h12m42s
I wonder if a man would have been saying the same sort of thing would it have been considered funny? Ever?
Just to make sure you all understand me I am not saying PZ is a bad person for allowing the use of the word bitch, ( I am a little worried about how readily PZ and company hand over their testicles) that Ed Brayton should be censored, or that anyone should stop using any specific words. I am making the same argument about what has been the biggest barrier between FTB, A+, the Skepchicks, and the rest of the world. Hypocrisy. Hold yourself to the same standards as you would others in similar circumstances.
If you search 'freethought blogs bitch' you come up with-About 94,500 results (0.19 seconds)
I don't know about you but 94,000 seem like a lot. It seems people like Ed Brayton, Adam Lee, Stephanie Zvan, and PZ Myers would do well to clean up their own house before complaining about anyone else. From the search I can see there is a show called "Godless Bitches" (free plug -you're welcome) maybe Ed should tell them how he feels about their use of the word "bitch". Maybe PZ should tell them not to bother trying to comment on his blog because they are sexist. Somehow I doubt that will happen.
There are a few problems that need to be solved before any of this crap can end. One is the hypocrisy. It's not that hard to apply the rules for behavior evenly. It doesn't matter if you are a 'scientist' who writes what was at one time a respected blog, if you are Joe Common who is commenting on that blog, or Mary Attendee going to a conference the rules need to be applied equally. At least be consistent in your criticism if you must be critical of others. Second is learn how the internet works and accept the fact. This should be followed by acting accordingly. The internet is like a big machine, say a washing machine for example. If you go to the washing machine and you tell it "I cut my hand on a piece of glass and it hurts" How will the washing machine reply to that? It will slosh around make a bunch of bubbles spin in circles splash some more, spin some more and then just sit there. It will sit there, cold, uncaring, and quiet. It won't give you a hug, in fact sometimes it will start rocking as it spins and tip over landing on top of you. Do this- When your washing machine is spinning grab an article of clothing and toss it in. Don't try to hold on to it or you will get hurt. Just toss it in and observe what happens? That is how the internet works. Whatever you throw in it gets caught up with the spinning and turns into a blur. It doesn't care how much you cry or complain. It doesn't care about anyone or anything, it just sloshes and spins and goes quiet. It doesn't give a shit. Accept it.
Third. You are not psychic. No one can know who or what another person is thinking or believes if they have never met and even then you can't be sure cause you aren't in their head. I'm not saying you can never know another persons motives for sure but...yes I am saying that. I love it when someone who is a couple thousand miles away and has never had any exchange with me whatsoever can make claims as to what kind of person I am or what my motives are. I can assure you that is impossible because even I am not 100% sure at times. Everyone should be able to relate to that sentiment IMO otherwise you are too conceited for your own good.
As long as we have popular people who are calling themselves skeptics/atheists while behaving like con-men and frauds there will be a problem. PZ Myers doesn't get it and Ed Brayton doesn't either. Many people think this is a conflict where both sides are at fault. Those people say "I just wish both sides would grow up" It isn't that easy. The entire reason the slymepit exists is because of the bullshit, lies, and hypocrisy from certain people. There is no one who is telling lies about PZ, Ed, Ophelia, Stephanie, Jason, Adam, Melody or any of the other people mentioned in the slymepit. There is a difference of opinion with those people and it is because they are not being skeptical. If anyone starts telling outright lies about another person you can be sure I will not be a part of it and I will speak out against it if it is brought to my attention. There is no reason to lie or cover for your buddies. Doing so only makes you look foolish and damages your credibility.
No one wants to deal with a load of bullshit and hypocrisy especially in the skeptical/atheist circles, there is plenty of that in politics/religion for us to deal with as it is.
The best thing people can do now is try to step back and take a look at the behavior of people trying to condemn others for being misogynist, sexist, evil, MRAs. Take a look at their behavior. Don't use the word "context" to excuse it, don't apply anything to it, just take it as it is. Isn't "context" a term we often hear used by religious people to excuse the way biblical verses are applied?
I'm getting kinda tired of people who don't know me explaining to other people who don't know me what it is I am all about. Very few people are educated enough to explain to others what I think and/or believe and that number is one, me.
I like. I'm starting to wonder if this whole thing's been started as a Misandrist plot by some Lesbian men haters & some idiots that think they're their friends?
ReplyDelete2008, 2006, 2007, 2009. It's almost like they were given, or figured out for themselves, good reasons not to use the word.
ReplyDeleteThey took on new information adjusted their way of thinking.....
Oh... Is THAT what you meant when you said 'had over their balls'. Maybe you should use a different term because that one is a bit negative and people might think you were criticizing Ed and co. for being rational.
Maybe your comprehension skills need work. Either that or you conveniently skipped over the part where Ed calls Renee Hendricks a git. I'm not sure THAT is what you mean by "adjusted their way of thinking" Is it okay if I use the term "dumb-ass" when I refer to you? It's the first thing that comes to mind....
ReplyDeleteDumb-ass is fine although I'm neither mute nor a donkey. Also unless you have a very different understanding of the word than I do I fail to see how you can equate git with bitch. Git is a non-gendered expression of contempt where as bitch is all tied up with women being somehow inferior to men.
ReplyDeleteYou can say that when YOU use it it's not gender specific, and maybe it's your intent for it to be non gender specific but that doesn't change the history or the connotations the word carries in wider society. If you really want to insult someone in a non gender specific way then you can't use a word that is attached to a given gender in a negative way. I'll take you at your word that you don't use it in any gendered sense but can you claim to have communicated that intention to a given listener?
You could use the word git instead. Or something like 'Vile bottom feeding asshat' or ignoramus or all kinds of other insults that not only communicate your meaning with more accuracy but are also gender neutral to all listeners.
As for arguing that Ed and co. are hypocrites... Well yeah, they probably are at times. Certainly I see some of that when I read the comment section on PZ's blog. The thing is that an argument is either true or false based on logic and reason not on who says it. Pointing out that someone is not doing as they tell others doesn't actually impact on their argument unless all you care about is getting more people to side with you.
You don't get it. ALL SLANG IS EQUAL if it conveys a negative feeling towards someone else then that is it. Words don't have 'hit points' unless you give them. And when you do that everyone's score is going to be different. And one definition for 'git' is 'bastard' I suppose you could make the argument that bastard is a non gender term too, but really? You are kinda at the point where nothing really mean anything specific all the time.
ReplyDeleteI disagree about pointing out that some are not doing as they tell others. It is an indication of dishonesty, selfishness, or failure to be reasonable. It is not usually behavior found in people who have an interest in what is best for everyone. PZ is a perfect example. Look at the shit he has said about me, all totally untrue or at least has a reason behind it. He doesn't even consider why I have done some of the things he is critical of. He doesn't care because I matter less than people he agrees with or are his friends. In fact, according to him not one single thing I say is worth consideration, nothing, none.
I don't think you understand the point I'm trying to get across if you think this is all about getting people to my side. I don't have a side unless you count honesty and fair even treatment.
Are you really telling me that there is no difference between 'nitwit' and 'motherfucker'?
ReplyDeleteWe have different words because they carry different subtleties.
I'm going to try and explain how I see things and hope I can get my points across because, as you pointed out in your first reply to me, I'm not the sharpest of tools and I do tend to obscure my points through crap writing.
The word bitch is used to insult both genders but it generally has different meanings when applied to men and women. Please note I'm NOT saying that this is the way YOU think. This is taking the meanings from the context of the conversation it's used in and depending on your particular society it may have different subtexts from mine.
When used about a woman it tends to indicate that they are not a nice person but it also draws attention to the fact that they are female.
When used about a man it is generally used to put him down for being weak, unmanly and/or manipulative. It does this by implying the man is acting like a woman in these ways.
Once again, for you or your personal circle this may not be the case but when you're talking to a wider circle can you honestly say that what I've written above is completely wrong?
I agree that it's people that give words hit points but saying people shouldn't do that is not going to stop it. Some things are ingrained really deeply in our collective understanding of language and I would argue that those connotations of the word bitch are one of those things.
As far as git goes I didn't realize about the bastard meaning. I've always thought it was just a contemptible individual but after checking a dictionary I see you're spot on. So you know what? I'll do my best to stop using it on the rare occasions I feel the need to call people names. There are lots of words I can use that will offend people on the basis that they are a horrible person without, even unintentionally, bringing their gender into it.