Saturday, November 17, 2012

Skeptical Posers


    I was speaking with a friend about some of the socially stunted people I have dealt with lately and at one point in the conversation my friend said "You know, I spent a long time as an atheist and a skeptic thinking I was all alone. Then I realize there are a whole bunch of people who are like me. Finally, people I can talk to about this stuff. Then I realize a lot of them are being total idiots and acting just like religious people. I don't want any part of that or the high school drama included with it."
  That is being heard more and more.
 As soon as we started to gain momentum along comes Rebecca Watson, Jason Thibeault, Surly Amy, Stephanie Zvan, Jen McCreight, Ophelia Benson, Richard Carrier, and a group of atheist/skeptic posers who call themselves  A+. All not being led in anyway, shape, or form by PZ "you're a stupid dummy" Myers.
  They've been marching around screaming "MISOGYNIST" at anyone who doesn't fall in line, or telling people to "pick sides". They have declared war on the atheist who applies logic and reason to gender issues. It is an aggressive-passive-aggressive strategy and it has hurt skeptics and atheists on numerous levels.
  Whether we know it or not the fact is the vast majority of the people who will be effected by the work of active and/or outspoken skeptics and atheists are never heard from or seen. They are voyeurs. A large number just like to watch and what they have been seeing has probably made them cover their eyes at times.
   The mighty logical, scientific portion of the population has begun to fall to the emotional, fallacy-driven poser skeptics. This is all happening in a vortex which is sucking everyone involved back to the days of high school. It is the high school popularity contest, the battle for student council president. It's the gossip made up by the most popular kids to make the lesser known kids look bad just in case they started looking cool. It's immaturity getting in some last jabs before adulthood takes over. Somehow a group who never quite made it to the adult part of their lives has managed to sneak in and fuck up progress. 
   Now claims of rampant misogyny in the atheist/skeptic circles have caught the ear of the theist. Always looking for a way to paint atheists as a negative force they can hardly be expected to pass up an opportunity to point out the new major flaw in atheism. It hates women. Nevermind one of the main political parties has been openly attacking women's rights, the real problem is all those atheists who don't believe Rebecca fucking Watson's pathetic story about a guy who asked her to coffee and to whom she said "no thanks" How terrifying! Rebecca Watson can't be bothered by what other people may be thinking or feeling she is being threatened  by email constantly, she lives in....well that is hard to say cause she giggles when talking about the threats she gets. Rebecca can't remember the faces of people she has met before, doesn't like it when people ask her what her name is, and is threatened when someone asks her to coffee in a hotel elevator. Is she really who should be telling others how/how not to behave in social situations? Is this a joke? Have we actually allowed a hypocritical smart-ass know nothing to effect us this way? Really?
 Before you get all uptight and start telling me that I am being inconsiderate of women's feelings, save it. I can understand how Rebecca could have felt threatened but isn't Rebecca intelligent enough to know when her social disorder may be causing her an issue and deal with it  instead of projecting it on everyone? Everyone should live in fear because she is at least a little dysfunctional in social situations? It's like expecting everyone to quit carrying balloons at the amusement park  because Rebecca gets scared of balloons.
 Then we have A+,  an attempt by some of  Rebecca's buddies to start a movement that was already in progress and take credit for it. They also added a "no bully" policy. A bully was defined as anyone who disagreed with them. This A+ fiasco was (and still is) useless and divisive. Another example of posers throwing a wrench into what was a steady move forward.
 It is time to come to our senses. It is time to stop abusing words like misogyny. It's time to stop making the ways we can claim to be offended #1 priority. It is time to bring back logic and healthy skepticism.
  I can see it happening now but let's pick it up, we got started late on this one. Skeptics need to start calling out these posers and expecting of them the same things we have expected of anyone who presented public claims.....proof, examples of what they say is true, data, accurate, tested data.  If there is a real problem we deal with it, if there isn't then we dismiss and move on. No harm, no foul, just do it right next time cause it isn't that hard to figure out. 
  Truth doesn't come from the most blog hits or from the most dramatic actor/actress performance. Truth doesn't automatically appear because people have been offended or because the person presenting it is your bff.
  Truth doesn't result from simply shutting down any opposing opinion.(PZ Myers) When did we get too lazy to argue our point?(PZ Myers) If you are peddling the truth you will have to defend it from a thousand fools and when that's done a thousand more will come to attack. We are supposed to be ready to defend with facts and intelligently thought out reasons. Instead we see a lethargic pitiful complaining dolt who can't be bothered to support his public offerings.(PZ Myers) If you can't/won't stand behind your claims then stop throwing them into a public forum.(PZ Myers) What's the point? Let those who are willing to step up do so and you can go to the back of the room and watch.(PZ Myers you lying, lazy, dimwitted, painfully ignorant, twit)

  People have watched as narcissistic personalities have been playing games and crying wolf just for amusement and how dare anyone accuse them of it. To do so means you are cast out. If you don't go on your own these posers will lie, insinuate, accuse, petition, assume in order to get you out. They behave in such childish fashion that the adults lose by simply acting mature. 
 It's been quite a circus the clowns are in abundance and it is the definition of "knowing just enough to be dangerous" 
  I have no doubt it will be fixed and some of the people who have been acting like posers are going to get the attention they deserve, none. And the move towards logic and healthy skepticism will continue even stronger having dumped the weight of narcissistic personalities and needless drama. To those who may be watching now would be a good time to post that comment somewhere you never have before informing these skeptic posers they have gone far enough. People like Rebecca Watson  and PZ Myers are not good role models in general but to follow their lead on social behavior? What the fuck is that all about?! PZ Myers is not exactly a social butterfly and he never has been. Maybe it is time to accept the fact that sometimes people like PZ Myers have said about all they can say that is worthwhile and start inviting some new people to share ideas and thoughts at conventions and rallies. Rebecca doesn't have concern for the best interests of anyone but herself in mind. She doesn't care who or what gets harmed by her bullshit. A normal person would see all the problems that have arisen from her elevator interaction and work to try and lesson the negative effects in some way. Not her, she just keeps feeding the fire and that indicates her motives are selfish and she has no concern for others, least of all men. 
   Time to take back skepticism and remove the plus from atheism, it was working fine without the hood emblem. It's common sense and reality, it shouldn't be that tough


  1. Perfect and I agree. Let's get these ass clowns attention taken away. The worst thing that could happen the PZ and Rebecca and Greta? Make them irrelevant, like Sarah Palin. Don't hate them, don't like them; just ignore them and make them realize their diatribes are irrelevant and ignored.

  2. If there's any positive to come from all this on a personal level, it's got me more active on-line. Due to my health & £ there's not much more i can do but point out their shit here in comments & blogs & twitter (i never did that before) but i realise it's nowhere near enough & that's why i'm grateful to people like yourself who say it like it is & have a far bigger audience than me. I envy you a little when i hear the fun you have on your Podcasts (apt'J) was cool the other day, "Lousy Fallacy" LOL. I suspect Ms Watson's a sociopath & will let her "Followers" down one day & Myers has always been an arrogant SOB, but nobody cared when it was aimed at Fundies. We'll come back bigger & better & we'll have shed the detritus that's been holding us back & others more worthy will take the place of the demagogues over at FftB & that sad little dying forum attached to it. Keep up the good work lads. ☮

  3. Cognitive dissonance for the win!

    "Then I realize a lot of them are being total idiots and acting just like religious people."

    And what is it that is the defining characteristic of "acting like religious people"? I'd argue that it is treating your own bias as if it is "truth" and beyond question.

    So I'm nodding along and then I read:

    'They've been marching around screaming "MISOGYNIST" at anyone who doesn't fall in line, or telling people to "pick sides".'

    Wait, what? That sentence (and the few that precede it) seems to me to fit the description of acting like a religious person. It's all sound and fury in defense of bias with not a single bit of rational thought in evidence. It's a blatant appeal to emotion... and not even the good emotions...

    Yeah, I know... this space isn't for me... or people like me (people with breasts, or those that actually think of people with breasts as... you know... full fledged people). This is both the first and last time I read this blog. I didn't even make it through your third paragraph before the stupid hurt to much to go on. Your claim you apply reason and logic to gender issues is belied even before you made it.

  4. You are entitled to your opinion,
    When I said "acting like religious people" my main reason for saying this is the manner in which assumptions are being made despite the lack of knowledge about a person or group of people. I'm sorry sometimes I make my own assumptions the people will see the same things I do because they seem obvious to me. You say you can't even make it through the blog which is typical of people like you. It's not quite as fun to listen as it is to talk is it? It is interesting how you feel this space "isn't for you" yet you take time to leave a comment. It is also interesting you ask a question of me, then you answer it, then you judge me based on the answer you provided to your own question. Then you you call me stupid.
    I really don't have any interest in someone who has conversations with others while they aren't even there . Whether you have breasts or not doesn't make a difference to me. It is the way you yourself don't get it and aren't interested in having a discussion you are interested in dismissing others who don't agree. That is what makes this space not for you. I would guess that any back and forth would force you to realize maybe you were incorrect and that would topple the house of cards you have built . Instead you can continue talking to yourself and claiming the fact you have breasts is the reason others don't agree with you. Again thanks for taking the time to comment it gives a good example of the kind of people I'm talking about.

  5. Hiya Reap! I'd be happy to see you apply logic and reason to gender issues, especially if it solves any problems in society at large. Unfortunately I've mainly only seen you defending calling women cunts, bitches, twats etc. -- maybe I'm too dim to see the link? 1. Call atheist women cunts and bitches, 2. Save the atheist movement, 3. Profit! .. How is that going to look to the 'theists' whose opinion you care about so much?

    No one their 'side' has ever said the movement is full of misogynists or there is rampant misogyny - only a few A*'ers in the movement ( Why wouldn't there be misogyny in the movement when we all grew up in a culture steeped in religious misogyny, no one is free of cognitive error? Burden of proof is on you there...

    Also I post on A+ as well as the Slymepit (Not always trolling even!) and I wrote another lovely post where I specifically said I don't think they are all misogynists (The title might be misleading). Personal preference is to try and say things like 'Reap Paden says the stupidest things' not 'Reap Paden is a stupid thing'...

    BTW: You may find that in 'taking' atheism/scepticism back from PZ and Rebecca you get a little confused. Hint; they don't 'own' it, you are free to use as you feel fit, same as they are.

  6. Ms Loree, do you realize when your response consists of "This isn't a space for me because I have breasts, oh the stupid burns" you are giving credence to every sexist stereotype of women being irrational, emotive and using manipulation rather than argument? If stupid burns, you are self-immolating.