Oh-boycott

In case you haven’t heard enough of Rebecca Watson telling you what to do she is at it again here. She is pissed that a white male is allowed to have a voice. Even though he spoke about a legitimate issue involving feminism. It wasn’t what she wanted to talk about and most importantly  it wasn’t said by the gender she wanted to see/hear talking about it. How can anyone call themselves a skeptic and be so obviously biased? Follow that with the fact she is so ignorant of her own bias she parades it around screaming and pointing at it without even realizing it.

The Center For Inquiry issued a statement that supported Ron Lindsay and it is straight to the point. Rebecca can’t understand how it is possible to make a point by being clear and leaving out any rhetoric. She thinks that you need to draw things out , you need to insult people, build some resentment. Rebecca prefers to be vague so people might take your point the wrong way and then you can slam them and tell them how stupid they are. She likes to make it sound like people who disagree with her believe in the exact opposite. Kinda like the way religious people will reply to someone who says they don’t believe in god. “Oh your one of them satanists then huh?”  because simple people need to think in simple terms. If you don’t like steak you are a vegetarian. You don’t drink? You are a recovering alcoholic. You aren’t a feminist? You hate women. See? Simple. To consider there are many different perspectives or maybe there is more than one way to solve a problem is too much trouble. You can’t judge people if you are trying to understand where they are coming from. Besides, where is the drama in that ? I imagine Rebecca would have liked to see CFI  reply with a statement that looked more like this-

Rebecca Watson’s Center for Inquiry Board of Directors Statement on the CEO and the Rebecca Watson Women in Secularism 2 Conference

The mission of the Rebecca Watson Center for Inquiry is to foster a secular feminist society based on Rebecca Watson, science, freedom of inquisition , Rebecca Watson, and feminist values.

The Rebecca Watson Center for Inquiry, unincluding its CEO whether he likes it or not, is dedicated to advancing the status of Rebecca Watson, women and promoting Rebecca Watson’s issues, and this was the motivation for Rebecca Watson’s sponsorship of the two Rebecca Watson Women in Secularism conferences. The CFI Board & Rebecca Watson wishes to express its unhappiness with all men especially white men except PZ MYERS (cause he is the one man who ‘gets us’ ) at the recent Women in Secularism Conference 2.

Rebecca Watson & CFI believes in respectful debate and dialogue in other places maybe but not here. We appreciate worship Rebecca Watson and the many insights and varied opinions communicated to us by her. Going forward, Rebecca Watson will endeavor to work with all elements of the secular movement to force our her values on them and strengthen our solidarity as we struggle together for full equality and then some for only women around the world.

But…that didn’t happen. So now she is calling for a boycott of CFI. She is not going to do anymore to support them especially because they haven’t invited her to. Rebecca here is a little something you should know. You can’t quit a job after you get fired. Maybe keep that in mind if you ever get a job. Unless you have one now , I’m not sure cause you never seem to talk much about any actual work you’ve done.

Maybe you could get a job looking after  PZ’s  ‘horde’. you know cleaning out the cages and putting the hose on ‘em every so often. Patting them on the head whenever some son of a bitch doesn’t give them a trigger warning and they melt down. ….just a thought.

Rebecca goes on to cry about the harassment she keeps getting and finally we see an example of the extreme hatred

How could anyone dare suggest Rebecca lives in another universe? Is there no end to the vile behavior Rebecca must endure?!  If this is the current level of ‘hate’ she is getting and it still is too much I hope she stays away from playgrounds and catholic schools cause the shit that goes on in those places is off the hook!

I’d like to hear, just once,  Rebecca make a plea to people asking for them to try and find common ground or to be less confrontational. What would have happened if Rebecca would have released her own statement a while back. Maybe something like this -

“Look, I can see there is a huge problem that seems to be doing harm to atheists and skeptics. I’m outspoken and I can see how I could have maybe just a little contributed to this problem. I’d like to help fix it by making some things clear- I’d like to tell all the people who are making actual threats towards me- I’m calling the cops. Those of you who are all talk – STFU cause I don’t give a shit. Every single shit message you send gets deleted, your time wasted. Thanks for spending some of your limited time on earth  thinking of me, I’m flattered. To all the reasonable people including the ones who disagree- Let’s focus on the things we agree on and by working together maybe we will come to understand where each of us is coming from. We are going to have arguments and fights but let’s realize when we have taken it to the point where no one benefits  except the people we both disagree with and that means we all lose.

Or we can just build a list of people/groups who don’t do what we want and withdraw support until we are only supporting skepticism by donating time to…well there isn’t anyone who does things exactly like we would do them ourselves so where does that leave us?

Rebecca, thanks for all you work to help make the world a place where skeptics don’t tolerate opposing opinions and no one supports rational thought and drama is favored over rational debate. Your contribution is noted.

Oh-boycott

David Silverman In Wonderland

David Silverman, the current president of American Atheists was invited to and agreed (after some haggling) to be a guest on the Brave Hero podcast which is hosted by Justin Vacula (va-cool-a) and Karla Porter (chill-g-rll) I know them both and have found them to be honest and they both tend to take a more formal (professional) approach towards conflict. That podcast took place on June, 15 2013. David was invited to further discuss issues raised in a twitter conversation with Justin. These are my thoughts on that podcast and some related interaction I have had.

Freethought Blogs -We fail with more than just words

Before I talk about the Brave Hero podcast I’ll give you a little background on my interaction with David to be open and honest about things. I’ve had David Silverman on my podcast as a guest, I’ve had a couple conversations with him in person. I’ve had an ongoing conversation with him in the last week in private messages about the conflict that has been ongoing between atheist/skeptics and FTB/A+/skepchick poser skeptics. Nothing extensive, David didn’t seem to have many facts about Justin Vacula and his role in the conflict so I figured he would appreciate being better informed. That way he could form a fair opinion based on truths.

David was more than happy to discuss the issue with me but insisted I was associated with “the shit”. He wasn’t nearly as interested in listening to what I had to say as he was in getting me to understand his version of the conflict. It was as if I was just making things up. At times it was like I had said nothing at all. David just walked by facts as if they were not even there, he didn’t even stumble over them a little. It is like David doesn’t need any facts or details, he has the answers already.

So David agrees to appear on Brave Hero radio after he and Justin Vacula (vac-cool-a) had a dispute over Justin denouncing what David refers to as “the shit”. I’m not sure what “the shit” is exactly. So far, “the shit” seems to be defined as stuff that David calls “the shit”. That is as clear a definition as any David has offered (which is none/nothing/nada)

David dives in right at the start and you can hear the condescension immediately. When asked for some examples of what it is exactly David thinks is “the shit” in the atheist community he replies that he doesn’t need to provide any examples.  David then goes on to point out that there is no way for men to know what it is like to be a woman. It is one of the few valid points that David makes, the problem is Justin has not made the demand that women shut up  or claimed to know better what it’s like to be a woman than even women do. Never once have I heard him even come close to either of those things.

David gives me the impression that he thinks it is his place to scold Justin “to help make him a better activist”. If being a better activist means over-talking the host when on a podcast or steamrolling over another person during conversation then David Silverman is the best activist I’ve ever seen. PZ Myers calls me a ranting asshole? At least I can get my facts straight. David has a problem with that. He also seems to be hung up on a few catch phrases. “Go fuck a knife” is one “You are too ugly to be raped” is another. David also seems to be under the impression that fake twitter accounts are a major factor in people leaving atheist activism. He gives Jennifer McCreight as an example of someone who was forced out. From my understanding Jennifer has some issues that contributed to her leaving that had nothing to do with fake twitter accounts. I’m not sure what David thinks is going to result from something called ‘boobquake’ when it goes viral but if he expects the world to mind it’s manners when it comes to boobs he is living in a fantasy land. I’m not saying it is acceptable behavior but people should accept the fact men are often pigs who say rude things to women, it is going to happen.

David  continues to insist that Justin act with professionalism. I’m left wondering what would happen if say if Justin took David’s example for professionalism and embraced it. Would yelling over people and using vague undefined terms while he making false accusations and ranting about things he knows absolutely nothing about be a better approach than offering to discuss issues in a open public forum without personal attacks? I think any mature intelligent adult would say no to even suggest such a thing is shit.

David Silverman repeatedly dodges any attempts to point out how his relationships are just like the ones he is calling Justin on. PZ Myers has behaved in incredibly irresponsible ways. PZ should consider changing his legal name to Libel Lyers (nice ring) at this point.  I can’t believe David is totally ignorant to the  actions and words coming from PZ or the number of people he has pissed off because he isn’t willing to accept people as allies. He makes it quite clear he has no use for people who disagree with him or his attempts to force a certain mindset be accepted by atheists.

I get the fact that David Silverman is probably sick of the petty fighting, he is sick of the childish and chickenshit attacks on women. Let it be known I am tired of it too. There were things I thought I could count on from people who were skeptics and atheists as a general rule. I have learned a lesson. People, all types of people have the potential to act like fucking childish, self centered, judgmental, hyper-sensitive,  humorless, biased, idiots. I will no longer underestimate anyone’s ability to fit that description. I will however wait for them to fit the description before I apply it to them. Until then they get a basic deserved respect from me by default. They get the benefit of the doubt. I will also always be willing to settle any differences by talking to people. I will not sit on my hands and watch as religion is replaced by  something just as dangerous hidden under a veil of someone’s righteous ideology.

I am bothered by David Silverman’s behavior. As I have said before I had respect for him but I can not respect his actions in this case given I know for a fact he knew better. Here is my direct reply to him just  so no one gets it twisted.-

    David, I gave you examples of things that were done/said to me that are far more damaging than any Photoshop of FTB bloggers holding We (heart) Justin signs. There are dozens and dozens of examples on the net of other people with the same stories. You were deliberately deceptive in your conversation with Justin about association. Do you think he or anyone else doesn’t know that?

I made that Photoshop David and it was for a reason. Those people, just about EVERY SINGLE ONE in that photo suggested he not attend or even attempted to keep Justin from attending that conference. That is wrong and for you to be critical of Justin for trying to make light of actions that are sickening and juvenile demonstrates a clear favoritism on your part.

     Justin DID NOT post Surly Amy’s address on purpose. I was in contact with Justin during that event. He never wanted to attack Amy in any way. He was trying to defend himself. He posted the address by accident. He got chewed out for his mistake as soon as he made it by myself and others. It was a stupid mistake. For you to accuse him of malice is bullshit. Listen closely-I WAS THERE. YOU ARE WRONG.

Who do you think you are fooling David? Do you really think anyone who knows anything about this is going to have any respect for you after hearing your skewed version of events? There are 600+ members of the slymepit, you gave the impression that you think they are all making rape threats, that isn’t even close to true. To say they are all “shit” is just dumb.

       A couple of isolated comments by someone with a 12 year old maturity level are not a solid base for your argument. You are the shit in this instance David. You are full of shit, you are spreading shit, and you have stepped in shit. You can’t even define your own term. At one point you told Justin to own his own ownership? Really? I had a lot of respect for you David, I thought you would be at least fair, shit I thought you would at least be civil. You couldn’t even have a conversation, you had to try and intimidate Justin. What if he responds in the same manner as you have to him? I’m sorry I was mistaken and I’m embarrassed for you David.

 

One of the high points of the podcast was the chat. Someone under the name PZ Myers was part of the conversation. I have reason to believe it was him because I can’t think of anyone else who would claim to be even in jest. Could it be PZ finally gained the testicular fortitude to venture out from his protected little den infested by the inept horde and stepped into the real world? I will give him credit for that if it is the case. I will also note he was up to his same old tricks blabbering away as if his psychic powers allow him to know me and what I am thinking at all times. Claiming that my responses to his attacks on my character are reason to dismiss anything I may have to say. If you are reading this PZ keep in mind what I told you in the chat. It would do you wonders to chill the fuck out and listen to people just for a little while instead of treating them like shit for daring to disagree. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you it doesn’t make them wrong.

Here is a link to the Brave Hero podcast 

Here is a link to the chat,( highly recommended reading )

 

Note- As this is posted David has responded to my last message. While we still have major differences in opinion. It should be noted that David Silverman is willing to continue to discuss those differences in a respectful manner. If I am going to criticize I must also be able to acknowledge reasonable behavior and willingness to at least try and find common ground. After the reasoned, respectable behavior we have seen from slymepitters who have been in discussion with Stephanie Zvan.  I wonder what will be said when it is proven that people who are part of the slymepit are not  hateful monsters after all. Time will tell, I hope some people are ready to put their social justice feet where their mouths are.

I will be following up on this, trust me.

David Silverman In Wonderland

In Support of Ron Lindsay

 

 

In case you didn’t know it Ron Lindsay  has been catching some slack for his opening speech at the Women in Secularism 2 conference.

There has been  a call to remove Mr Lindsay from his position. I can’t tell you how much this bothers me. The fact it has even been called for is incredibly troublesome. The people who are calling for such action have got to be ignorant on a level that should shame them. We are better than this, we are smarter than this, and we have more common sense…at least we should have. Just because a group yells loud does not mean they have a better position on an issue or have the best interests of everyone in mind. In this case I think it is clear one small segment is attempting to claim they represent a large portion of the community when that simply is not the case.

You can support Ron Lindsay by sending a email in support to  tflynn@centerforinquiry.net

Here is a copy of what I sent them-

  I would like to voice my support for Ron Lindsay, the speech he made at the beginning of the WIS2 conference and his overall attitude through a very stressful period in the atheist/skeptical circles.

  I raised a daughter as a single father. She has become a mature self confident compassionate member of society. I have no interest in supporting anyone I believe would hinder my daughter or any other woman in achieving anything she aspires to. I volunteered time to help create the media for launch of Secular Woman. While I would not call myself a feminist because of the unclear definition, I can say I speak out on behalf of and do work to help achieve equal rights for women.

       In my opinion Ron did nothing that could be considered harmful to women, their rights, or anyone else’s rights. This trend towards removing people from positions because they have upset a vocal portion of the community is a dangerous one.

     The main criticism of the opening speech seems to be who was the source of the speech. Ron, being a middle-aged white man was being criticized before he even finished speaking. The outrage displayed that a man dare voice an opinion at a woman’s conference is unbelievable. I ask you to consider the speech not knowing who the speaker was. If you can read that speech not knowing who is delivering it and not be offended to the point of outrage then Ron Lindsay did nothing wrong except be born white and male. When you start to judge or penalize people for the way they were created you do everyone a disservice.

  There is an attempt to force what can only be described as an agenda on the atheist/skeptical community. This agenda has nothing to do with atheism and it does not stand up to examination by skeptics. Still certain people are attempting to make it part of these ways of thinking. The CFI is just the latest in a list of groups /people who have been targeted. I hope they follow the lead of every other group effected by this type of behavior and continue to embrace facts and integrity over propaganda and falsehoods.

 Thank you for your time

‘Reap’ Paden

 

In Support of Ron Lindsay