Freethought Censorship

 

 

So I was listening to PZ Myers talk about people who disagree with him and allowing comments on his internet posts. PZ made the point that it was in no way censorship, anyone was free to say whatever they wanted on their own blog/website. The obvious flaw in that logic is Joe Normal has no where near the following PZ has. If PZ says something that is untrue maybe(just an example) 5000 people read it. If that untruth is an accusation against your character it’s possible 5000 people have just been convinced you hate feminism and women. Or maybe just half, 2500 read the Pharngula blog post and believe what it says about you being a racist. Does anyone else see the problem with this? Most bloggers would have a tough time reaching the number of people PZ does much less the same people who read the blog. You may never see/meet any of those people but since the people reading are the types of people you associate with online, at conventions, and at local meetup gatherings, there is a stronger likelihood you will. I’m not interested in defending myself from bullshit the inept PZ Myers thinks is true simply because somebody (like rebecca watson) told him so. So we see the same kind of behavior demonstrated by Rush Limbaugh when he called Sandra Fluke a slut. You have a prominent blogger who is attacking a lessor known person who doesn’t have the ability to defend themselves. How many people has PZ or his legion of loons attacked in this manner?
Now, getting back to my original point….PZ tells people to create their own pages, they can then say whatever they want about him cause he doesn’t care.
I posted the video you see below to youtube this week. It was up one day before it was flagged for removal by viewers. I suppose I should mention PZ also blogged to complain about the video and make it sound as if I had some sort of mental illness or obsession. The video is simply my choice of style to disagree with PZ. You may not care for it, that’s fine. You may think it is mean but I don’t agree. It is a parody. The amount of ridicule it projects is appropriate IMO. PZ Myers isn’t interested in correcting his comments about my character, in fact he has continued to pile on more falsehoods. PZ Myers has made it clear he has no interest in discussing anything with slymeballs like me. He should not be surprised when he is mocked then because there is nothing to lose and it’s not as if he has shown an ounce of respect to any of his critics.
While I can’t say it was PZ himself who flagged the video it was surly his supporters. This gives an example of the type of thinking PZ Myers promotes. If you can’t ban ‘em, scare ‘em, or bully them then censor them whatever way you can.

It really is a dangerous and disturbing trend we used to only see in religious believers. Somehow I doubt PZ will be finding fault with the censorship of the video because it was about him. I can already hear him justifying the removal because it was against the TOS as if it is okay. The problem is if the same tactics were used against him the story would not be the same.  As a reaction to the attempt to shut me up I have resolved to post the video on several other video hosting sites and will be making a follow up.  Let it be known that I am not going to be censored , intimidated, or libeled into being quiet.

Notice of TOS violation due to flagging

To whoever did flag the video- Nice job, great way to promote expression and celebrate the freedom we all hold dear. Hopefully no one ever attempts to do the same to you, if that does happen let me know and I will back you up and support your right to free expression.

Here is the video the damn thing just won’t go away…

PZ Myers wraps it up

PZ Myers wraps it up by reapsowradio

Freethought Censorship

Be Skeptical

In case you don't know it there has been some talk about 'peace talks' as a remedy to the current disagreement among skeptics and some FTB bloggers/A+/skepchicks. PZ Myers has addressed this idea and dismissed it, but for different reasons than mine. PZ thinks that anyone who disagrees with him doesn't respect women. I'm not sure when PZ came to the conclusion he was the end all/be all when it came to what people should think and how they should act. I wonder, did he have some sort of vision? While he eating his alpha-bits cereal one morning did it spell genyous and he thought it was a sign? Did a strip cage fall and hit him on the head while he was 'out with the fellas'? While that mystery may never be solved we still need to deal with the results. PZ has a well known blog. In the past he was at least on our side and focused all his immature behavior at creationists. Now he has dismissed any suggestion he use the scientific method when it comes to social issues. There is only one method for him, his way.
  Now while PZ and I agree that there are not going to be any 'peace talks' that will solve anything, he doesn't echo my reasoning in that I don't think there is any infighting between atheist/skeptics. The atheist/skeptics are doing fine, the atheists are still atheists and the skeptics are still skeptical. Then we have  this other group of poser skeptics.

PZ Myers and company are to skepticism what these guys are to Slayer

We don't need peace talks, we don't need debate. We need to keep in mind what it is that defines us. I'm going to leave atheism out of the rest of this discussion because it really is specific and no matter how many +es you add to it your idea stems from a specific belief and that limits the effectiveness of it. Whoever came up with A+ as a title for a 'next wave' was clearly not well-versed in the already existing groups involved in secularism.
 That leaves us with skeptics. Steven Novella has an excellent blog post where he discusses the role of skeptics. His original post is followed by his reply to popular 'poser skeptic' PZ Myers.


PZ says the following in his reply to calls for a cease fire-
 "They have not said what I’m supposed to stop doing or change…well, other than stop being an evil feminist or whatever, which we know isn’t going to happen. It also doesn’t matter what they want, I’m not planning to change anything."

  I think it is very important to note that PZ Myers has condemned the forum which goes by the name  Slymepit. He refuses to allow anyone who has anything to do with the slymepit to comment on his blogs. If someone from there does leave a comment it is removed and the person is subject to "instant ban" or the comment is "disemvoweled" (no I'm not talking about about a third grade kid, he really does that)
 PZ can not see how this is not a reasonable position, he thinks everything is science on his blog. That's why he is a poser skeptic. (and he is also a few rides short of a carnival)

PZ also says "My silence on issues I care about will not be a bargaining chip." There may be someone  who has a problem with PZ trying to gain equal rights for women but I don't know who it is . If anyone does know who PZ has been getting this idea from then please let me know cause I would like to tell that person to pass a message to PZ.- QUIT ENGAGING IN CHARACTER ASSASSINATION, QUIT SPREADING GOSSIP/DISINFORMATION, AND QUIT LYING ABOUT THE WAY YOU DEAL WITH OPPOSING OPINIONS
This person that he seems to be drawing his conclusions from could possibly be the only person on earth PZ Myers actually listens to. He doesn't listen to any of the people who disagree with him about his behavior. In fact, if you read his post it will leave you in awe. If ignorance is bliss PZ Myers is multi-orgasmic when it comes to his behavior. The degree of retarded social development he would have to possess in order to take his position on this subject is incredible. He makes Charles Manson look like Dick Clark. when you compare skills at social interaction......poser skeptic.
  The slymepit forum is not against women's rights. A short visit to the forum will prove that. Some of the humor is a bit juvenile or raunchy for some and the language is not the type you blurt out in the library but no one is trying to censor thoughts and no one is wishing any harm on others. Now as a contrast to the slymepit  lets take a look at the interaction in the Pharyngula comment section on this post . A guy named scooterskutre posted  a link that was related to the subject of the blog. He is attacked by the band of merry morons. Even after he posts a link to a very friendly  podcast he did with PZ and Rebecca Watson and tells the morons he considers PZ a friend. Well, the guy gets overwhelmed by stupidity and is never even given a sliver of mercy by the head moron running the blog.

  Now I think that we have established that the current main mouthpiece against skepticism is PZ Myers. I have given you some reasons/examples why his position is not one that indicates much if any level of skeptical ability.
  If there is anyone reading this who disagrees then I would love to hear you explain to me how PZ can know none of the people in the slymepit forum is worthy of respect. How can a person take such a position and still be considered a skeptic? Poser skeptic
 The good news in all this is there really is no divide or rift in the skeptical community. Just as there really is no debate over evolution being true. Sure there are some who don't believe in evolution but their arguments cant stand up. They just look silly and it is quite easy to prove evolution is a sound scientific theory. There may be some holes or gaps in it still but there is no gap large enough to cause the entire idea to collapse. Even a poser skeptic could win the argument between creationism vs evolution.(example: PZ Myers)
  Same thing when it comes to skepticism. There are real skeptics(evolution), and there are poser skeptics(creationists). People who realize they can not judge a person or an entire group of people without knowledge, real knowledge, or tested results are skeptics. Those who think an internet post or the actions of one person define everyone they associate with are not skeptics, they are posers. People who call for the shunning of others simply because they won't unite in a certain mindset are posers. Skeptics do not need to lie, or ban/block large amounts of people. Skeptics take the best evidence they have and form an opinion based on only what they know is true or they hold off until they have enough evidence. Poser skeptics make assumptions based on what they want to be true or what supports the things they have claimed to be true without facts in the past. Skeptics realize there are reasons words have solid definitions and those definitions do not change at a flick of a switch.

  
    I have come out against the 'peace talks' because there really is no divide between two like -minded groups and because some of the problems I had with people pretending to be skeptics were not up for debate. There is no debate whether Adam lee is going to tell me what words I can use or the context I intended when using certain words.There is no debate on whether I am a racist like PZ Myers has said. There is no debate over whether I am able to have a respectful conversation with another person. That I can do so has been proven hundreds of times. Still the poser skeptics refuse to acknowledge any of the proof. That would take the wind from their sails. If they were to do so then they would be admitting to being posers. Rather than do that they will keep piling more and more sand on their already well buried heads. All that sand is enough to fill quite a wide divide.
  The fact that many of the poser skeptics are atheists really means nothing, they may as well all like the color blue. The fact they come to conclusions without any solid proof to support those conclusions makes them posers. The way they fill in any gaps with disinformation and don't realize the problem with that makes them posers. The expectation they have for others to blindly follow them makes them dumb, but least they are not posers in that respect I guess that is something.
  There is no divide because Skeptics are skeptical. This is all anyone expects and all they demand. Be skeptical, just that. Until this happens some people will only be posers there is no disagreement about that among real skeptics

A Debate With No Sides

What actual debate may look like

   So I am over at the A-News post where Lee Moore is attempting to put together a debate in order to stop the fighting between some of the FTB blogger/skepchick and A+ supporters on  one side and the other side comprised of all the people who aren't overly concerned about the things the FTB blogger/skepchick and A+ supporters are ranting about, and a forum which goes by  the name Slymepit. In case you don't know it I am maybe a bit biased towards the slymepit . I am not however, an unfair man. I take pride in being straightforward, honest, and blunt as a rule. This has caused many people to dislike me but it is their own issue, I can do little about it.

PLEASE NOTE- Not official slymepit logo

 Please note I am only speaking from my perspective. This comment was originally in reply to Matt Dillahunty claiming Renne Hendricks and John Welch were misrepresenting claims which they were not doing IMO.(here) I doubt Matt will reconsider his position at this point  so I figured it may be better to offer a public reply that others may consider, or not.
Matt Dillahunty says:

February 6, 2013 at 9:54 pm

They’re not telling you where you may roam. They’ve been asked to participate and they’re defining who they’re willing to negotiate with. It’s not only acceptable, it’s the norm – and it’s a good idea.
If you’re going to debate or negotiate, you want people who are willing to make decisions based on reason and who are willing to denounce slimy attacks.
When people, like you and John, misrepresent the claims from the other side, you exacerbate the problem an inhibit progress.

  There is a reason the slymepit was created and has grown. Each individual has their own story. PZ Myers has dismissed the entire forum as evil and hateful, unworthy of consideration. Over 500 people all declared no better than creationists (or even worse) by one of the more influential (arguably) atheist bloggers on the internet. Also a man who is a regular speaker at  conferences. Why? Because people want to listen to him. That is an important fact to remember as you read this or if you wonder why I am writing about the subject.Well, he is, in some cases, a liar. He also has demonstrated a lack of reason and responsibility by condemning the slymepit.There is a clear issue with PZ Myers, he is the catalyst in this. His readership and influence have enabled him to keep this entire thing going by accusing many skeptics/atheists of being potential rapists, racist, misogynist, and sexist. Not to mention the usual name calling you expect from a college professor like asshole or dumbass and then banning people who take issue with being treated that way. What does anyone expect to result from such behavior? Along with A+ which was an outright declaration of Us vs Them to many people. This was then supported by Richard Carrier in his blog posts. Throw in some Adam Lee, Lousy Canuck, Ophelia Benson and other random players, you get what we see today. It would have been nice to see some reason and logic pop up among the popular figures but they were all too busy staying out of it. Now we have a mess that isn't going to be resolved easily. I got involved because of the attack on Justin Vacula, it was just wrong. I refused to sit and watch as a young, active, energetic, and sometimes overeager adult was attacked and his character assassinated because he pissed off the wrong group of immature skeptics. When I stood up for him then I was a target. I'm not going to be anyone's target. I am going to answer back in my own style. That is what I am guilty of. I am guilty of informing people who want to tell me what it is I mean, to screw off. I am guilty of telling people who claim I am a racist or misogynist, despite overwhelming evidence showing that is not the case, to shut the hell up. As far as I am concerned there is no debate over the things I have a problem with. I am not going to debate whether it is okay to accuse me of being a racist or anything else because I didn't allow someone to do as they pleased while I sat silent and watched. There is one side that carries the brunt of this and it is those who are casting judgement on others when they can not possibly know what they say is true. It is a catastrophic failure in skepticism because it harms people on a personal level. That is the misrepresentation you should be paying attention to.

Freethought Without Thought

      
Freethought holds that individuals should not accept ideas proposed as truth without recourse to knowledge and reason. Thus, freethinkers strive to build their opinions on the basis of facts, scientific inquiry, and logical principles, independent of any logical fallacies or the intellectually limiting effects of authority, confirmation bias, cognitive bias, conventional wisdom, popular culture, prejudice, sectarianism, tradition, urban legend, and all other dogmas. Regarding religion, freethinkers hold that there is insufficient evidence to support the existence of supernatural phenomena.
 
From: Pedro Timóteo <pedro.timoteo@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Blog submission
To: "Reap" <ourlord_darwin@yahoo.com>


Hello,

I've removed Reap's Truth from Planet Atheism. Your feud with PZ Myers, which all your recent blog posts seem to be about, are not acceptable content there, and I've had several user complaints already.I think it's best that your blog and the aggregator part ways.


  And so here is where this leaves us.... After all of the ghost hunters, demonologists, psychics, people who think they can talk to the dead through a radio, rival radio personalities, critics of the podcast, evangelist preachers, apologetics, catholics, christians, dummies like Michelle Bachman, creationists, frauds like Kevin Trudeau..... after all the disputes and misunderstandings there is one group of people who have managed to censor or limit my speech and/or the accessibility of my words more than any other. That group is The FTB bloggers who are calling for 'social justice' and those involved in A+. There is no question about it. Even if Adam Lee disputes whether he is trying to censor me, he is attempting to do so in some ways

    Here is another interesting  fact. Pharyngula is still being posted at Planet Atheism.  No one can argue that PZ Myers is an open minded advocate of atheism, skepticism or and other type of ism. Time after time PZ has engaged in personal attacks and libel. The proof is there for all to see. It can be found laying around his blog posts and in his comment section. He has spread disinformation on a regular basis about numerous  people and subjects and then limited any peer review of his claims. He was claiming creationists as his victims, now he doesn't seem to care who he lies about. The general attitude of his blog comment section is a reflection of the venomous babbling PZ does when someone disagrees with him. When confronted he takes a passive aggressive tone or gives extreme examples in order to excuse his behavior.
   The fact that Planet Atheism chooses to remove my blog really isn't the end of the world. I already have a couple of offers to have my blog hosted at other sites which will result in more traffic than I saw from Planet Atheism. So a big "thank you" to the people who complained is in order because otherwise I never would have found these new venues.
  One thing I would like to point out is how wonderful it is to have PZ Myers fighting on the side of skepticism, atheism, feminism, and social justice. We need people to help us get away from the lies and injustice of religion so we can replace it with the lies and injustices of PZ Myers. We needed someone who is so egotistical he would force his beliefs on an entire group of people and call for the condemnation of anyone who does not follow him. Imagine for a minute if PZ Myers had a leadership role in our government.What would the result be? I find the thought nothing less than terrifying. Does anyone think having such a person as a mouthpiece is maybe not in our own best interests? Now don't get me wrong, I am not calling for censoring PZ but it would be nice to see people speak out against what is clearly doing harm to others and his approach is unfair and harmful in some cases. Be critical of me if you wish but I'm not telling lies about anyone and I have made it clear my opinions are just that, my opinion. I always invite people to listen to the other side and form their own opinions. You don't see that from PZ Myers, he would rather tell you how it is, and let there be no question, that is final.  The definition of freethought isn't whatever Freethought Blogs agrees with. They can try and 'take back' words if they want to waste time and energy. You can't take back what never belonged to you or anyone else in the first place.

PZ Myers-Destined to Failure

Scene 1

enter PZ Myers:
"It's hard to think of something to say when faced with so much bullshit"

  That is how PZ opens in a conversation  with TheSkepticalHeretic, C0nc0rdance & TheTruePooka which can be found here.

Hello??? HELLO!!?? Has anyone seen Stephanie Zvan?! She needs to get on this right away! It's clear all PZ can do is say the word "bullshit" when people try to have a conversation with him. Stephanie, get on that right away and please tell us all the made up reasons why it's okay for PZ to do that kind of thing but not anyone else. You know the context, or the alignment of the planets being different, or it was a joke.....right? 

People are depending on you Stephanie. You are the best qualified to make up excuses and pretend like there are legit reasons for people like PZ doing the EXACT same thing you have been criticizing others for . No one else has your kind of experience at it. In fact the way you deny reality and act like you are royalty while barking orders at the peasants (readers) is legendary (in your own mind). The way you actually think no one sees through your rhetoric is laughable (in everyone else's mind). Keep that in mind when you can't be consistent Stephanie, people are laughing at you, especially when you get angry. No one is frightened and no one is really listening. The people in your comment section would agree with anything you say. Is that the kind of writer you want to be Stephanie? No amount of denial can change the facts, you are only fooling yourself. Latest example  When Damion Reinhardt talks about the word "renounce" he never claims a different definition than you use, he just says it reminds him of another instance he considers similar.

On a more serious note-  Be honest, do you have a wheel next to your desk that gets a spin whenever this kinda shit happens? Ok , maybe that's going too far. It's a dartboard then? 

   This performance by PZ is full of hypocrisy and lies that seem almost like they are tangible. In fact I  feel the need to wipe the crap PZ is spewing off me at times. At one point in the discussion PZ talks about shutting down dissent to a volume he can manage. Just as we see so often from people like Stephanie Zvan and Ophelia Benson, he makes comments about things and people that are untrue and then complains about the continuous repetitive comments from readers. He shows no ability to consider that he may be even a little responsible for creating the very problem he is complaining about, not to mention the reaction he gets from the other member of the conversation. I half expected red lights and sirens to go off followed by Greg Laden busting in with his arms flailing and yelling "DANGER PZ! DANGER!" (Greg doesn't get out much) 

   Even though PZ starts out the conversation so (dis)respectfully, the hosts of the show remain composed and voice their opinions on his opinion. Then PZ does something even more disrespectful, (the nerve!) he treats every single one of these guys as if they are idiots. PZ sits there staring into the camera and lies to every one of them. There can be no question about his deliberate deception, not by any reasonable coherent adult human."If someone disagrees with me, that doesn't get them banned" Well yes, sometimes it does PZ. I can say this from experience. I disagreed with PZ calling me a racist. When I didn't use an approved style of reply he simply banned me started giving me different labels and claimed my reaction to his lies was proof he was correct. PZ is too damn dumb to see how he started the entire conflict by claiming knowledge when he had none whatsoever.  

      What PZ describes as "yammering" by people who "have nothing to say" is often people with real points of disagreement, valid arguments against what PZ has said. Some are people who have been banned because they disagreed with the way PZ describes their character. PZ loves to add insult to injury I guess by basically sending the message that he knows them better than they know themselves. The  assumption is that he is always correct, just like believers who think they already know all the answers. Especially when it comes to social issues. Like I've mentioned before, anyone with basic common sense should be able to understand the complexity of social interaction. Maybe you won't understand the details but you can still realize it is complex. Unless you are PZ Myers and you think the things people type in chat rooms translate into real world actions on a consistent basis.

 
C0nc0rdance makes the point that people  are trying to be heard and PZ dismisses his point too. PZ denies anyone has a right to be heard on his blog except him. He uses this point to excuse his censorship of anyone who says anything he disagrees with. The way PZ rationalizes his censorship is by equating every 'troll' to creationists who claim the earth is 6000 years old. 

   It is kinda tough to even present all the things wrong with PZ's position in this video, I just don't have the time to cover it all. I would suggest you watch it yourself. While I appreciate the people who organized this conversation I really wish they would have done a better job pointing out the way PZ misrepresented his own actions.

 There is no doubt a certain number of you are going to read this and say to yourself --Big surprise, what did you expect from PZ Myers? Don't get me wrong this is exactly the kind of thing I expect of PZ. If it had gone down any differently, then I would have been surprised. More and more people are beginning to realize Pharyngula is a joke most of the time.  Just look at the comment section and the kind of crap that goes on there. It's a hub of egotistical idiocy. It's a bunch of morons who couldn't figure out how to use a stamp if you gave them directions, under the delusion they are intelligent and intimidating. Maybe one day they will come to realize what clowns they look like but I wouldn't count on it. PZ complains about his comment section getting all screwed up if he allows just any every person in the world to post on it. Well there are plenty of blogs out there with little moderation doing just fine. I wonder why PZ has such issues? Hmmm let's guess.
  Take a look at the quality of the comment section. While you are at it count how many times that dysfunctional Caine insults or belittles someone. (and they call me angry?)
 Just because I expect PZ to act like a dickhead and lie doesn't mean he gets away without me saying anything about it.  He claims he doesn't care but that is just because he is too stupid to realize the amount of truthful accounts/opinions showing him  for the dick he is, grows everyday. I'm doing my part to help. Pretty soon he is going to be known for what harm he has done rather than for anything he has done to help. It's a good thing he doesn't value what anyone thinks of him but if he doesn't care about others or the damage he has done why does he even bother in the first place? Doesn't he know the truth always wins?  

The Bloggers That Couldn't

This "social justice" thing has a large yellow streak through it

    Ophelia Benson was offered a guest spot on the A-News podcast today. She accepted too.  Then when she learned  the details ( I am a co-host on the show) She pulled out (so to speak) Ophelia has done public speaking before right? So it isn't that she is unable to speak in public. What is it with these people who gleefully libel and slander people left and right showing no ability to grasp the concept of responsible behavior in even its basic form? They can spout off constantly claiming they want the world to be a better place but can't be bothered to actually talk about it with anyone who doesn't already subscribe to their thinking. What is Ophelia Benson worried about? Does she think I am  going to come through her computer monitor and steal all her cat food from her or somethin?  Even if I was a ranting prick to her all she would have to do is hang up. She would then have a REAL example of someone behaving the way she has been claiming. That would also provide her with something else she yearns for. I think you could call it the "holy grail" of freethought blogs , credibility. No one there has it but they all long for it. Over and over again they have tried to claim they possess it but it always turns out to be made out of the same stuff you find in Mr Rodgers neighborhood, make-believe and sock puppets. I find it laughable that any of these 'social justice warriors'  really think that by avoiding human interaction with anyone except those who smile and nod the world is going to give them any consideration. What a huge waste of time. I have a standing offer to anyone who wants to offer their side of things and have a real back and forth conversation. No one can claim I am unable to do anything but rant, all they need to do is take a look at the list of people who have been guests on my podcasts. From christ-followers, to people who claim they can heal burned flesh through a phone text message, psychics, ghost hunters, and even an Oolon. Add to that list the number of well known/not so well known atheists and other guests. I have more than proven myself able to have an adult conversation there is no valid excuse to decline especially if you really believe in the words coming out of your mouth or popping out of your keyboard. I can't imagine what it must be like to not be able to stand up for what you believe in because it is so fragile and weak. If you remove it from the protective wrapper of your warped perception it will be crushed under the weight of common sense, how good could it be really? I don't even disagree with everything they find fault with but we will never find common ground as long as they refuse to exchange ideas and instead only attack or misrepresent. I they can't even manage to find a way to get along with other skeptics and atheists how could they possibly think they can win a battle with religious people over all the things they are hoping to change? Not a chance



 There are some disturbing tendencies among  skeptics/atheists I'd like to bring your attention to

• Banning people for disagreeing. I'm not talking about people making stupid claims like the earth is actually a large piece of bubble-gum. I'm talking about people who think maybe everyone should be treated equally and anyone can be a victim of discrimination. It happens more to some groups than others, but that doesn't mean anyone is immune. Blocking instead of answering valid questions/concerns or to avoid showing what you claim is accurate, or blocking people you are publicly criticizing  in order to keep them from answering to that criticism are also 'in' behaviors among many.  The point has been made that people are allowed to run their web pages as they see fit and I agree but just because they can and do doesn't mean they aren't being a little irresponsible and underhanded. remember when  a skeptic/atheist would trip over themselves to answer someone who questioned their claims or demanded proof? Those days are long gone in some places.

• The redefining of words to fit a certain social movements agenda. A lot of people are abusing the  phrase "definitions change over time" Yes, they do change but if you are aware of that then you should be smart enough to know the old usage doesn't just shrink into a little ball of light and blink out in front of everyone one day and no one sends out regular memos which are posted on front doors to announce any change. It takes time for the most familiar definition to fall out of use if it ever does at all. 

• Paralinguistic cues. This is a widespread problem since we have become more exposed to 'text only' interactions. Language also isn't always easy to understand especially when you are reading the written word. Text does not carry mannerisms or paralinguistic cues . This causes people like Adam Lee to make assumptions and come to incorrect conclusions about other people he has never met. Adam doesn't understand there is always more to a person than what can be guessed by reading a twitter feed or a blog. 

•  Censorship. There have been an incredible amount of attempts to "quiet the opposition"  among some atheist/skeptics. Flagging videos, blocking people before you even have any exchange with them. Character assassinations, shunning, calling for people to pick one side of an issue and force anyone who isn't on your side out of any discussion. Dismissing entire groups of people based on who they choose to interact with rather than considering them based on their actions and words. All these things are counterproductive. Behaving in this manner limits our ability to progress and interact. If you surround yourself with people who agree with you on all aspects of life you start to think your opinion is the most reasonable because everyone you know agrees. Social interaction is complicated and the more open you are to differing opinions the easier it will be to make sure everyone is treated equally.

• The lack of inclination or need to explain your position/conclusions to others. Many skeptic/atheists do not feel it is important to explain why they feel the way they do about certain subjects. They expect others to just 'get it' because it seems so simple to them. Anyone who doesn't fall in line is either the enemy, stupid, or just unworthy of being shown any respect. PZ Myers is a great example of this. Now I know PZ has been very supportive of me and I don't mean to insult him but, to be honest, PZ is like a conceited,  bitter, vindictive, bully. He is far too busy to ever make sure his point is clear or to make a case for his side of an argument. He is to important to be bothered by silly details like being accurate and honest. It is much easier to shut down the critics by shutting off the comments and/or  banning them when (or sometimes before) they  post presenting a counter opinion. If we could harness the condescension  and  arrogance contained in PZ's head it could power 3 states an still be enough to run the intense limelight he thinks constantly shines on him. 

I'd like to also address Ellenbeth Wachs for removing and blocking me without a word. A while back I did a podcast in support of her getting out from under some crap from a  sheriff in Florida. I have had her on as a guest on my podcast because I liked her and I thought the actions taken against her were just plain wrong. I was happy to help her get her story to the public and maybe keep someone else from  going through the same treatment in the future. I  thought we had a mutual respect for each other. I haven't agreed with a lot of what she has been doing/saying lately but I have kept relativity quiet about it. Sometimes it's better if friends don't talk about certain things cause it will only lead to trouble. I found out Ellenbeth had removed me by chance. There was some rude jerk named Matthew who had been hitting me up on PM and asking about  Ellenbeth.  This guy was annoying as hell and I ended up telling him to go fuck himself. I then figured I should pass on to her that some dude was possibly up to no good. I couldn't send the message cause I was blocked. Irony huh? So maybe let that be a lesson to you. Before you start listening to people like Stephanie Zvan and PZ Lyers and allowing them to influence who you associate with based on what could only be described as knowledge from psychic powers , maybe think about the actions of that person. Especially actions taken on your behalf. Or maybe consider your personal interaction with that person more valuable than the opinion of someone who has never met them.  I know for a fact Ellenbeth has shunned several people who have never done her any harm and would have her back  if she needed them, not to mention the harm she has done to her credibility as she isolates herself. I hope she gives pause and thinks about these things. Hopefully before she tries to accuse another good person like Bridget Gaudette of being part of the problem with the skeptic/atheist/feminist movement. Bridget has been a voice of reason among extremes and she has shown far more patience towards critics than I ever could or would. She doesn't deserve all the venom that has been directed towards her much less to have another persons warped perception forced on her.

Stephanie Zvan uses her psychic power to find and hunt down misogynists..or something

  Here is a list of some of the people I've had conversations with on ReapSowRadio and The Angry Atheist podcasts.
This doesn't include everyone, but it is probably about 60% and I think it shows a few of things that contradict the people who want you to believe all I do is scream "motherfucker" into the microphone (PZ Myers) am not smart enough to have a conversation with cause I "just can't get it" (Stephanie Zvan), use language that isn't approved by  Adam 'uptight whiner' Lee (Adam Lee)  or any of the other bullshit claims that I am some fool who rants for no reason whatsoever.(Lousy Canuck, Ed Brayton Ophelia Benson ect ...) I also must be the only person on the planet who gets angry. It could be I'm impossible to get along with for even a short period of time. I'm relatively sure all the people listed below would disagree, that's why they are not the ones making those claims. Funny how the people who can't/won't talk to me seem to think they know the most about me, they all find time to blog about me though don't they? How brave and noble of them they sure know how to get stuff done. .

1.  Hugh Robinson
2. Shay Chandler
3. Anna Johnstone
4. Jim
5. Steve Williamson
6. Aaron Johnson
7. Raving Redal
8. Fandick
9. Luis Fayad
10. Justin Vacula
11. Alicia Vickery
12.  Eric Santiago
13. Chuck E. Jesus
14. Blair Scott
15. The Friendly Atheist
16. Fred
17. Rudy Ruddell
18. RJ Evans
19. Allen Thompson
20. Eric Amundrud
21. Jake Farr-Wharton
22. Brian Allen
23. Sean Rowland
24. Justin Connelly
25. Lewis
26. Bruce Meyer
27. Leighton Allred
28. Amy
29. Lee Moore
30. David Silverman
31. Bryan Bonner
32. Matthew Chapman
33. The Hateful Atheist
34. D.J. Grothe
35. Stu Hayes
36. Joe Zamecki
37. The Godless Bastard
38. Al Stefanelli
39. Dan Fincke
40. Bob Margolese
41. Brian Dunning
42. Andre Smith
43. GodlessandHappy
44. DPRJones
45. Craig James
46. Yannick Melancon
47. Justin Griffith
48. Dan Rawlings
49. Bob Hodges
50. Richard Haynes (Brother Richard)
51. Ellenbeth Wachs
52. Hank Fox
53. Terry
54. Mike Van Roy
55. Cognitive Dissonance
56. Nathan Griffiths
57. Flyingfree333
58. Crispy Sea
59. Absolutegodless
60. Troy Boyle
61. JT Eberhard
62. Atheist Pastor
63. Anthony David Jacques
64. John Kieffer
65. Marc Luzietti
66. Tom Hand
67. Bride of Chucky
68. Mike Lee
69. Karla Porter
70. The Secret Atheist
71. Michael Wilson @GodlessAtheist
72. Moron Watch
73. Alex Rosenberg
74. Emily Dietle
75. Ernest Perce The Saints Revenge
76. Chuck Doswell
77. Greta Christina
78. Bridget Gaudette
79. Rick Wingrove
80. Jim Wall
81. @absolutegodless
82. Trinity
83. Laura Bradley
84. Peter Boghossian
85. Jerry DeWitt
86. Todd Stiefel
87. Secular Woman
88. Tris Stock
89. Derek Colanduno
90. Brandon Kennedy
91. Post Rapture Looting
92. Dylan Walker
93. David Fitzgerald
94. Bree Olson
95. Brian Fields
96. Herb Silverman
97. Tim Donk
98. Dayln Limesand
99. Maria Maltseva
100. Reap Paden
101. SPACKlick
102. Phil Giordana
103. Abbie Smith
104. Anton Hill -The Atheist Asshole
105. Martin Pribble
106. Robert Darby
107. Justicar
108. Franc Hoggle
109. James Onen
110. Walter Ego
111. The Critical G
112. Russell Blackford
113. Barbara Drescher
114. The Thinking Atheist (Seth Andrews)
115. Mr Deity
116. PZ Myers
117. Eugenie C Scott
118. Brian Dunning
119. Graydon Square
120. Angie Jackson
121. Peter Gilmore

And there will be more added to the list. No matter what you say PZ  Myers or how many times you ban me. No matter how great you think you are Stephanie Zvan. No matter how badly you wanna be famous, smart, and or cool Adam Lee. No  matter how many times Ophelia Benson claims the sky is falling. No matter how long Ed Brayton keeps his fat head buried in the sand so he can deny the damage he has not only allowed but encouraged. And the same for the rest of you.... I am not going to allow you to force your thinking on me or allow you to try and force it on others without saying something about it. I don't know what happened that resulted all you loons getting hit on the head with a safe at once but you people remind me of a damn zombie invasion only you ate your own brains now you just wonder around bumping into each other .

PZ Myers-Lord of the Fly-Brained

   

     I think we have a problem. Many people expect social issues to be black/white. Some skeptics are falling  into this belief also. Skeptics are supposed to be skeptical and that means questioning claims. It also means when coming to a conclusion it should be as close to accurate as possible. When it comes to social issues there are some questions that have more than one right answer. Take feminism for example. Feminism is a necessary and worthwhile cause. There are many instances of women being treated unfairly by men simply because they are women. There are some forms of feminism that can be  unproductive and do not result in positive progress, in fact they are, in my opinion, harmful to the feminist movement as a whole. Most often the people who are doing the most harm to feminism are men who call themselves feminists.  Those men do not know what it is like to be a woman and really seem to have a problem understanding they simply will never be able to know exactly what it is like to be a woman. This is not to say men can't relate on any level or shouldn't speak out on behalf of women or women's issues but they should do it with the limitations of their understanding in mind. Many times you will see feminist men go to extremes and start seeing misogyny in every negative comment or action even slightly related to women. I've come to believe this behavior is somewhat like what we see in homophobic men and their dealings with homosexuals. They often will go to extremes to compensate for feelings they are uncomfortable with. These men have feelings about women they know are wrong and overcompensate by lashing out at other men for even the slightest behavior against any female.
 As I written before, sometimes I am ashamed of the shallow, disrespectful behavior I've seen demonstrated by men towards women. I do not think all men are defined by that behavior,but I realize it needs o be addressed. The radical feminism that is being used in an attempt to further equal rights makes it difficult for people like me to continue to speak out against what we think are inappropriate actions by men. Are some guys dicks? Yes, but so are some women.

  One example of men overcompensating for the feminist cause is my good friend and supporter, PZ Myers. PZ is clearly paranoid or possibly he is guilty of bias against women to the point where he feels some  guilt about it, maybe a bit of both. PZ attacks any negative comment having to do with a female and calls it misogyny. He has created a bubble where a disagreement between a man and a woman can not occur. At the risk of being labeled a misogynist (again) by PZ I must point out that women do make mistakes and they do engage in behaviors that should be criticized by others. PZ has even gone so deep into the pool of misogynist paranoia that he has damned a forum of 500 members called the slymepit as sexist, racist, misogynist, and evil. If a known member of this forum posts in the comment section of PZ's blog they are instantly banned by his beloved 'banhammer' which he gleefully uses to quiet any dissent among commenters. The only people who are immune are his regulars who have earned their loyalty by nodding and smiling or making accusations that support PZ and his paranoid delusions about slymepitters.
 Along with the condemnation of anyone from the slymepit, PZ has also proclaimed his distaste for the idea that men have rights too. The idea that a man can at anytime be a victim of bias is beyond the understanding of those who are so extreme in their idea of feminism as to have become blind to a certain spectrum of social injustice.
  The ways the court system has dealt with child custody issues is one example most should be aware of. The unequal treatment displayed by the courts for years demonstrates just one way men have sometimes been treated as lessors when it comes to raising children. This has changed a lot in many places but still goes on today. The mother is favored by the court as the best caregiver simply because she is a woman. There are other examples but I am not going to go into those now. If you would like to read more then you can go here A Voice For Men. I have had Paul Elam on my radio show as a guest and he has proven to be a reasonable man with sound arguments. I wouldn't say I agree with every opinion on the site but I also can't name a place where I do agree with every opinion it expresses.

  In the latest attempt to show that women are in danger at skeptical/atheist events, PZ Myers makes a claim that shows just how far he has slipped from reason. PZ takes data from a census being conducted by American Secular Census and attempts to show it proves secular women are being victimized at an alarmingly high rate. The problem is, the data isn't complete. It isn't even provided in the results PZ Myers is trying to claim is some kind of 'smoking gun'. Sure there are lots of pretty numbers but there are no important numbers, like overall numbers. Stats are given like this-

Regardless of gender, all uninvolved respondents are asked: What are your reasons for not being involved in the secular movement? Check as many as apply. Women outnumber men in these responses:

• 70%/30% - Bad experience with group, person, or event
• 100%/0% - Can't get over my conditioning that religion is good and secularism is bad
• 67%/33% - Health issues
• 65%/35% - Lack of childcare

Or this-


And women are the only respondents to select these answers:

• 100%/0% - Unwanted advances by other participants
• 100%/0% - Not sure - I can't put my finger on it

Anyone who got past the 5th grade should be able to figure out the flaw in this type of information. These numbers are meaningless except they indicate there was at least one woman who experienced unwanted advances or is unsure. The unwanted advance could be almost anything, such as being asked to coffee in an elevator. The thing is we don't know how serious the problem is without real numbers such as the numbers of women who answered the question yes. Telling us if anyone did is useless...unless your name is PZ Myers. That's right, a professor of biology, a college professor, actually uses these figures to try and prove his case against men. He claims this-

  This American Secular Census thing is actually asking some good questions — insightful, even. It’s trying to get a fine-grained perspective on various factors in our involvement and sometimes comes up with some revealing data.
This is what a lot of us have been saying for quite some time. You have a choice of a few responses to reality: one is to deny it, one is to implicitly approve it, and one is to try and change it. Put me in the last category. Also note that I am shocked at how many skeptics/atheists are in the first, and disappointed at all the ones in the second category.

Yes PZ is correct. Some people are in denial of reality. He is lord of their kingdom, Lord of the fly-brained. 
Is there no end to his downward spiral? And why must he scream the entire way down?

A Public Response To Paul Zachary "PZ" Myers- Quit Lying

Artists rendering  of  PZ Myers if he doesn't stop lying

Defamation

From Wikipedia

Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, traducement, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation a negative or inferior image. This can be also any disparaging statement made by one person about another, which is communicated or published, whether true or false. 

  

famacide

 

fa·ma·cide

[fey-muh-sahyd] 

noun, Law.

a person who destroys another's reputation; a defamer or slanderer.

The Latin phrase famosus libellus means a libelous writing.
example:



Mr PZ Myers
   I figured I would make things as plain and simple as possible-
   You don't have the right to trash my character because you don't agree with me. Writing posts about people breaking the law, mentioning my name at the same time, then blocking my ability to defend myself from your inferred guilt is unfair and childish to say the least. I don't know where you learned to disrespect people or when you came to the conclusion your intellect is above everyone else, it isn't. You seem to think I am some internet punk who won't stand up for himself and will allow you to just say whatever you want while I sit there and take it.That also is incorrect. I have, am, and will hold you responsible for every word you have posted on the internet.  My ridicule of you does not give you the right to libel me. If you want to criticize behaviors I have actually displayed then that is one thing but I will not allow you to make up lies about me. I have not lied about your behavior, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask you to be honest. This isn't a game and I'm not interested in being part of your fantasy where you are superior to every other human on the planet and can do/say anything you want to/about them. People don't exist solely to be judged by you. .
 You are guilty of ongoing, public libel. I noticed you mention the number of followers you have on certain social media sites. This indicates you are well aware of the damage you could be doing you just choose to behave in a reckless  manner showing no concern for others whatsoever. What is it you want us to believe? When you are held responsible for publicly voicing your opinion (see A+) you act as if your own opinion is worthless, deserves no consideration, and has no effect on others.  In other cases you expect people to give your opinion value and embrace the ideas it relays (see feminism & A+). If they fail to do so it doesn't mean they are just different, it means they are idiots or assholes. It means they are no longer worthy of consideration. You must be well aware that for whatever reason some people see you as a leader. Your behavior is imitated by some people because they think it makes them cool. You have readers that look to you as a source of accurate information, you must know that. How do you repay these people? You abuse that respect by misleading them. You also use that respect as a weapon against people you have contempt for. In some cases that contempt stems from people who were defending themselves from your unfair claims about who/what they represent. (see Coffey Loving Skeptic) In some cases it isn't a fair fight (see Justin Vacula) and you know it. That makes you a very weak man PZ. This is a fact which is becoming clear to more people  each day.
  I have over 5 years of ReapSowRadio podcast recordings PZ that I offer as evidence you are wrong about me. I also offer my prior blog posts. Add to that 115 individual interviews I have done for The Angry Atheist podcast that show I do not spend the majority of my time screaming "motherfucker" into the microphone like you have said in your blog posts. The fact you even make such a claim shows how uneducated you are about the people you like to publicly trash. You have no idea what the hell you are talking about. You purposely spread disinformation as a way of attacking innocent people. You attack them on your blog and deny them any way of defending themselves.The only thing they are guilty of is criticizing you. You could at least allow the people you have hit with your banhammer (also known as your 'shield from criticism') one rebuttal along with your claims against their position or character.  You instantly remove my reply to your accusations. What are you afraid of?  It is important you understand this PZ...I'm not talking about people lying about you. I am talking about people who disagree with what you think should be acceptable by society standards. Just because they don't agree it doesn't make them evil or out to get anyone, it means they disagree. Try to connect the dots on this.
 I'll wrap it up with this- You are not going to force me to behave in a manner which meets your approval. Just because you have appointed yourself Feminism Czar that means shit to me. I already know how to work for equality and how to show respect. I also know how to tell when someone has no respect for others and deserves none back. You have been seeing the result of that. You will continue to see/feel a push-back as will Ed Brayton, Stephanie Zvan, Ophelia Benson, Lousy Canuck, and Adam Lee along with anyone else who thinks they can make the rules for the rest of us.Quit confusing atheists with creationists you idiot can't you tell the difference by now? Damn.
 

PZ Myers The Judge, The Jury, The Jerk

 Let's take a look at the latest blog from PZ Myers. He is a scientist, biologist, skeptic, atheist, feminist, I am sure we will find some interesting information about biology, skepticism, or science. Those are interesting subjects, let's see what good old PZ is going to teach us today...

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/01/17/not-cool-not-cool-at-all/

    Hey! That's not about skepticism! It looks like a post that could be accusing Reap Paden of identity theft.  PZ left an important element out though......the proof, facts, some kind of evidence besides made up bullshit. 

 I have dealt with some real idiots over the years I have been on the internet but seldom do you see this kind of bullshit. I've dealt with paranormal investigators, religious believers, frauds, psychics, and just plain internet bullies. It is rare to find someone of this ilk. It isn't enough PZ has accused me of being and asshole, racist, misogynist, sexist, fucking scumbag, coward now he has to elude to me being an identity thief. The way he words it he may as well have me convicted already. 

  PZ, I have news for you. You are ignorant and oblivious to the opinions many people have of you these days I guess and I hate to be the one to break it to ya but......A lot of people think you are a moronic twit. That means there are lots of people who could have done what you are giving me credit for. 

You have the nerve to talk about cowardice? How chicken shit and low is it to suggest I may have something to do with pretending to be you and your pleasant conversation with a car dealer without ONE SINGLE BIT of proof except the fact I don't like you. The reason I don't like you is because of the exact kind of shit you see above. You don't have a clue as to what skepticism is. You think it is your place to judge a person and then trash their character in a public forum. You have done it to me, to Justin Vacula, and to many others including the 500 members of the slymepit forum.  With this post you have made it clear to me you deserve no respect from me whatsoever.  I assure you I am no coward. I will stand up for myself and take accountability for the things I do. I did not do what you suggest I am guilty of and if I ever see you then I will be confronting you about the claims you have made about me. Meanwhile you tell people to harass you too your face? PZ if anyone so much as said "boo" to your face you would probably begin weeping uncontrollably and lose control of  your bodily fuctions much like you have your mental faculties   

Who is the coward writing about me while I am in the dungeon banned from defending myself. Even if I do manage to post my comment has the vowels removed. Yea PZ very impressive how you blindfold, tie and gag your victims before you start a fight with them. Real impressive intellect you have there.

Now Let's look at some of the follow-up comments from PZ

 

    PZ is wrong again. I do not have 13 aliases although I soon might because the only way I can comment on his blog posts and lies is to create a new email addy. I also do not have 25 messages in the spam trap. PZ is obviously giving me credit for posts which are not mine or he is lying, again.

I am left wondering....Why bring my name into this at all? Why couldn't PZ just have wrote about some anonymous jerk that is ruining lives by making car dealers call him and have a pleasant conversation? Because he is pissed. Why is he pissed? Because I am right and because he feels foolish, as well he should.
PZ has slipped another rung or two with this unfair post. I have a reputation for being outspoken and honest. Something PZ doesn't know because he is convinced I am limited to screaming "motherfucker" as my only means of communication.
  I may not have the following PZ has but the people I have dealt with don't paint the kind of picture PZ is showing in his gallery.  People may not agree with the manner I use to deal with him but they can not say I am dishonest.
 I'll close with this. This time it is me being dragged through a mud-puddle PZ Myers made in his yard. I am no one special. I just think people should be treated with a certain level of respect and skeptics should be skeptical. I have been guilty of standing up for what I think is unfair or wrong. This time it was me, before me there were others, after me there will be more unless people speak up. Next time it could be you or anyone for that matter. All you need to do is speak out against the wrong atheist/skeptic or use the wrong word and it will be your turn. Is this how we build a better community and work toward positive progress? I don't think so, I would hope you agree.  

Open Comment To Stephanie Zvan

I figure since PZ Myers is too chickenshit to leave my comment up on his blog I cant be too careful (more on PZ soon) So while reading a blog on Stephanie Zvan's site I thought I would leave a comment there. Trouble is Stephanie isn't exactly my bff (ophelia benson is though, she LOVES me)  So just in case I will leave my comment here and send her a link. Here is the link to the post Almost Diamonds
Your welcome for any meager traffic Stephanie.


 Stephanie I wonder if you ever get tired of the way you have to "drama it up" in order to get a response out of people.  Maybe if you didn't grasp onto every little thing and build it into a high school play you would get more respect from people at least.Did you really take Renee's comments to mean this-

"This idea that I should stop drinking, though–that’s toxic. So, hey, you were sexually assaulted. You should just stop living your life rather than cope with some distress. "

or this

"I should be (figuratively) jailed. If I can’t pretend in every particular that it never happened, I should give up my life."

Really Stephanie? Come on are you really that dumb? I mean I can kinda understand playing the drama up when I called you a bitch. Which is clearly what you were doing. You see, I'm not dumb, I get it. The problem is you had a terrible thing happen to you and all this over dramatic crap takes from the message. Along with some serious mistakes, such as-

"Or do they teach that in counseling for sexual assault? I’m pretty sure they don’t, which makes the counseling comment flat out stupid in addition to being grossly inappropriately personal. Especially since what they would have done in counseling, if the counselors were good, was try to help me live as normal a life as possible, making the accommodations I needed. In fact, they would have suggested I do more or less exactly what I did, at least once I was of legal drinking age."

           Yes, they do teach 'that' in counseling for sexual assault. I am sure you don't know because you never even tried to get help. The comment no matter how it was delivered was good advice. Many women think they can "just get over it" but they don't. They need help. You don't know if they would have told you to do exactly what you did.
 The reality of the matter is both you and Renee should talk to a professional about your feelings on your abuse, no matter how 'ok' you feel. Not to be a total asshole but you really should be a bit more responsible before you start saying no one could or would have taught you about drinking because if a young person is reading then they could end up in the same place as you. You might want to include a phone number for anyone who can relate and would like to find some help or learn more. Like say this
 https://www.stopalcoholabuse.gov/inthenews.aspx
  Maybe you would have thought about doing that if you were not so caught up in trashing other people and milking drama.
You know Stephanie Al and I have discussed having you on ReapSowRadio and we think you may well be the one who can actually stand up and back your shit up. Watta you say? I promise I won't call you a bitch. I really would like to understand how you come to your conclusions. Besides if I am a dick it will be in public for all to see, right?

 Sideline-

 Anthony K you are just toxic. Why don't you start your own blog instead of just leeching on others? I may be a jerk sometimes but I pick my battles and I have a reason, you are a stupid prick to people just because, Loser.
And the rest of you, wow. You are some cold fuckers. It really is too bad that many of you will one day find out what it is like to have a loved one in harms way with nothing you can do about it. I hope the shit you said here comes to mind. If any of you can say you already know what I'm talking about then shame on you. How can you claim to have compassion when talking shit about an abuse victim who's BF is having a health scare at least?  And lastly why don't you all quit acting like you have psychic powers. The internet doesn't give you the ability to know everything about other people you've never met.Sorry. I admit I don't know jack shit about what any of you have going on in your heads and I don't wanna know cause it has got to be a twisted fucking place in there for you to say some of the shit I'm reading here.WTF?