Be Skeptical

In case you don't know it there has been some talk about 'peace talks' as a remedy to the current disagreement among skeptics and some FTB bloggers/A+/skepchicks. PZ Myers has addressed this idea and dismissed it, but for different reasons than mine. PZ thinks that anyone who disagrees with him doesn't respect women. I'm not sure when PZ came to the conclusion he was the end all/be all when it came to what people should think and how they should act. I wonder, did he have some sort of vision? While he eating his alpha-bits cereal one morning did it spell genyous and he thought it was a sign? Did a strip cage fall and hit him on the head while he was 'out with the fellas'? While that mystery may never be solved we still need to deal with the results. PZ has a well known blog. In the past he was at least on our side and focused all his immature behavior at creationists. Now he has dismissed any suggestion he use the scientific method when it comes to social issues. There is only one method for him, his way.
  Now while PZ and I agree that there are not going to be any 'peace talks' that will solve anything, he doesn't echo my reasoning in that I don't think there is any infighting between atheist/skeptics. The atheist/skeptics are doing fine, the atheists are still atheists and the skeptics are still skeptical. Then we have  this other group of poser skeptics.

PZ Myers and company are to skepticism what these guys are to Slayer

We don't need peace talks, we don't need debate. We need to keep in mind what it is that defines us. I'm going to leave atheism out of the rest of this discussion because it really is specific and no matter how many +es you add to it your idea stems from a specific belief and that limits the effectiveness of it. Whoever came up with A+ as a title for a 'next wave' was clearly not well-versed in the already existing groups involved in secularism.
 That leaves us with skeptics. Steven Novella has an excellent blog post where he discusses the role of skeptics. His original post is followed by his reply to popular 'poser skeptic' PZ Myers.


PZ says the following in his reply to calls for a cease fire-
 "They have not said what I’m supposed to stop doing or change…well, other than stop being an evil feminist or whatever, which we know isn’t going to happen. It also doesn’t matter what they want, I’m not planning to change anything."

  I think it is very important to note that PZ Myers has condemned the forum which goes by the name  Slymepit. He refuses to allow anyone who has anything to do with the slymepit to comment on his blogs. If someone from there does leave a comment it is removed and the person is subject to "instant ban" or the comment is "disemvoweled" (no I'm not talking about about a third grade kid, he really does that)
 PZ can not see how this is not a reasonable position, he thinks everything is science on his blog. That's why he is a poser skeptic. (and he is also a few rides short of a carnival)

PZ also says "My silence on issues I care about will not be a bargaining chip." There may be someone  who has a problem with PZ trying to gain equal rights for women but I don't know who it is . If anyone does know who PZ has been getting this idea from then please let me know cause I would like to tell that person to pass a message to PZ.- QUIT ENGAGING IN CHARACTER ASSASSINATION, QUIT SPREADING GOSSIP/DISINFORMATION, AND QUIT LYING ABOUT THE WAY YOU DEAL WITH OPPOSING OPINIONS
This person that he seems to be drawing his conclusions from could possibly be the only person on earth PZ Myers actually listens to. He doesn't listen to any of the people who disagree with him about his behavior. In fact, if you read his post it will leave you in awe. If ignorance is bliss PZ Myers is multi-orgasmic when it comes to his behavior. The degree of retarded social development he would have to possess in order to take his position on this subject is incredible. He makes Charles Manson look like Dick Clark. when you compare skills at social interaction......poser skeptic.
  The slymepit forum is not against women's rights. A short visit to the forum will prove that. Some of the humor is a bit juvenile or raunchy for some and the language is not the type you blurt out in the library but no one is trying to censor thoughts and no one is wishing any harm on others. Now as a contrast to the slymepit  lets take a look at the interaction in the Pharyngula comment section on this post . A guy named scooterskutre posted  a link that was related to the subject of the blog. He is attacked by the band of merry morons. Even after he posts a link to a very friendly  podcast he did with PZ and Rebecca Watson and tells the morons he considers PZ a friend. Well, the guy gets overwhelmed by stupidity and is never even given a sliver of mercy by the head moron running the blog.

  Now I think that we have established that the current main mouthpiece against skepticism is PZ Myers. I have given you some reasons/examples why his position is not one that indicates much if any level of skeptical ability.
  If there is anyone reading this who disagrees then I would love to hear you explain to me how PZ can know none of the people in the slymepit forum is worthy of respect. How can a person take such a position and still be considered a skeptic? Poser skeptic
 The good news in all this is there really is no divide or rift in the skeptical community. Just as there really is no debate over evolution being true. Sure there are some who don't believe in evolution but their arguments cant stand up. They just look silly and it is quite easy to prove evolution is a sound scientific theory. There may be some holes or gaps in it still but there is no gap large enough to cause the entire idea to collapse. Even a poser skeptic could win the argument between creationism vs evolution.(example: PZ Myers)
  Same thing when it comes to skepticism. There are real skeptics(evolution), and there are poser skeptics(creationists). People who realize they can not judge a person or an entire group of people without knowledge, real knowledge, or tested results are skeptics. Those who think an internet post or the actions of one person define everyone they associate with are not skeptics, they are posers. People who call for the shunning of others simply because they won't unite in a certain mindset are posers. Skeptics do not need to lie, or ban/block large amounts of people. Skeptics take the best evidence they have and form an opinion based on only what they know is true or they hold off until they have enough evidence. Poser skeptics make assumptions based on what they want to be true or what supports the things they have claimed to be true without facts in the past. Skeptics realize there are reasons words have solid definitions and those definitions do not change at a flick of a switch.

  
    I have come out against the 'peace talks' because there really is no divide between two like -minded groups and because some of the problems I had with people pretending to be skeptics were not up for debate. There is no debate whether Adam lee is going to tell me what words I can use or the context I intended when using certain words.There is no debate on whether I am a racist like PZ Myers has said. There is no debate over whether I am able to have a respectful conversation with another person. That I can do so has been proven hundreds of times. Still the poser skeptics refuse to acknowledge any of the proof. That would take the wind from their sails. If they were to do so then they would be admitting to being posers. Rather than do that they will keep piling more and more sand on their already well buried heads. All that sand is enough to fill quite a wide divide.
  The fact that many of the poser skeptics are atheists really means nothing, they may as well all like the color blue. The fact they come to conclusions without any solid proof to support those conclusions makes them posers. The way they fill in any gaps with disinformation and don't realize the problem with that makes them posers. The expectation they have for others to blindly follow them makes them dumb, but least they are not posers in that respect I guess that is something.
  There is no divide because Skeptics are skeptical. This is all anyone expects and all they demand. Be skeptical, just that. Until this happens some people will only be posers there is no disagreement about that among real skeptics

Freethought Without Thought

      
Freethought holds that individuals should not accept ideas proposed as truth without recourse to knowledge and reason. Thus, freethinkers strive to build their opinions on the basis of facts, scientific inquiry, and logical principles, independent of any logical fallacies or the intellectually limiting effects of authority, confirmation bias, cognitive bias, conventional wisdom, popular culture, prejudice, sectarianism, tradition, urban legend, and all other dogmas. Regarding religion, freethinkers hold that there is insufficient evidence to support the existence of supernatural phenomena.
 
From: Pedro Timóteo <pedro.timoteo@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Blog submission
To: "Reap" <ourlord_darwin@yahoo.com>


Hello,

I've removed Reap's Truth from Planet Atheism. Your feud with PZ Myers, which all your recent blog posts seem to be about, are not acceptable content there, and I've had several user complaints already.I think it's best that your blog and the aggregator part ways.


  And so here is where this leaves us.... After all of the ghost hunters, demonologists, psychics, people who think they can talk to the dead through a radio, rival radio personalities, critics of the podcast, evangelist preachers, apologetics, catholics, christians, dummies like Michelle Bachman, creationists, frauds like Kevin Trudeau..... after all the disputes and misunderstandings there is one group of people who have managed to censor or limit my speech and/or the accessibility of my words more than any other. That group is The FTB bloggers who are calling for 'social justice' and those involved in A+. There is no question about it. Even if Adam Lee disputes whether he is trying to censor me, he is attempting to do so in some ways

    Here is another interesting  fact. Pharyngula is still being posted at Planet Atheism.  No one can argue that PZ Myers is an open minded advocate of atheism, skepticism or and other type of ism. Time after time PZ has engaged in personal attacks and libel. The proof is there for all to see. It can be found laying around his blog posts and in his comment section. He has spread disinformation on a regular basis about numerous  people and subjects and then limited any peer review of his claims. He was claiming creationists as his victims, now he doesn't seem to care who he lies about. The general attitude of his blog comment section is a reflection of the venomous babbling PZ does when someone disagrees with him. When confronted he takes a passive aggressive tone or gives extreme examples in order to excuse his behavior.
   The fact that Planet Atheism chooses to remove my blog really isn't the end of the world. I already have a couple of offers to have my blog hosted at other sites which will result in more traffic than I saw from Planet Atheism. So a big "thank you" to the people who complained is in order because otherwise I never would have found these new venues.
  One thing I would like to point out is how wonderful it is to have PZ Myers fighting on the side of skepticism, atheism, feminism, and social justice. We need people to help us get away from the lies and injustice of religion so we can replace it with the lies and injustices of PZ Myers. We needed someone who is so egotistical he would force his beliefs on an entire group of people and call for the condemnation of anyone who does not follow him. Imagine for a minute if PZ Myers had a leadership role in our government.What would the result be? I find the thought nothing less than terrifying. Does anyone think having such a person as a mouthpiece is maybe not in our own best interests? Now don't get me wrong, I am not calling for censoring PZ but it would be nice to see people speak out against what is clearly doing harm to others and his approach is unfair and harmful in some cases. Be critical of me if you wish but I'm not telling lies about anyone and I have made it clear my opinions are just that, my opinion. I always invite people to listen to the other side and form their own opinions. You don't see that from PZ Myers, he would rather tell you how it is, and let there be no question, that is final.  The definition of freethought isn't whatever Freethought Blogs agrees with. They can try and 'take back' words if they want to waste time and energy. You can't take back what never belonged to you or anyone else in the first place.

A public reply to Adam Lee from Daylight Atheism

Think humans adam...humans

  

  You may remember my mention of Adam Lee. Well it seems he has his own version of events and has posted about them here. In my opinion this is Adam's attempt to backpedal from his lame position on my behavior. Adam still insists on referring to a gif file of a dog dry humping a cow as pornography. I'm not sure if Adam has a wife but if he does I hope she suffers as little as possible while in Adam's company, it must be terribly painful at times. In case Adam Lee is planning on 'losing' my reply I am posting it here so that it will continue to offer a more realistic look at the events Adam started into motion......


   Adam you have never even taken a moment too try and talk to me. You don't know a thing about me. The only reason you even started to give me so much of your attention is because Al Stefanelli was using you to wipe up the floor in a debate you were having with him. You suddenly had a problem with me calling Stephanie Zvan a bitch. Ok, well where I come from we talk like that. I don't reserve the term bitch for any particular gender or social class it is a relatively generic term. I was just as likely to have called her a dick. If anyone who never uses slang to refer to another person wishes to criticize me, that is one thing. I wonder how many people have never used the term "bitch"  or any other slang term because you can't say one is worse than another if one is wrong they all are wrong.
 You also seem to lack an understanding of some words Adam. Misogyny is not defined by a male having a disagreement with a female. Try understanding the words you are going to use when describing others, especially when you are trying to harm their reputation. Stephanie Zvan was not crushed by my calling her a bitch, in fact she made a public post informing me that I was to address her as a "fucking effective bitch" .Why is it Stephanie Zvan is not being called out for endorsing the use of the word when addressing her?
     I have been doing a live radio show on Tuesdays for the last 5 years Adam. I have had Eugenie Scott, Brian Dunning, Mr Deity, PZ Myers as just some of the guests. I have covered all types of subject matter from gun laws, to racism, to drug addiction, politics, almost any subject you can think of I have also been doing another podcast for the last 1 1/2 years interviewing atheist in order to remove some of the misconceptions about atheism. On that podcast I've had David Silverman, Matthew Chapman, DJ Grothe, Greta Christina and over 100 other individuals. The podcasts are all available. Never once has any of my guests ever claimed I was anything less than respectful and pleasant. I helped the women who founded Secular Woman do a podcast that would help launch their project. I have a blog that has been my outlet for addressing unfair accusations such as yours as well as share my thoughts on the world in public for all to see. You can take your snapshot of me and try to paint me in whatever background you wish Adam. I can not do much about that, but anyone who actually takes the time to talk to me instead of attacking without knowing any of the details will probably find me to be a pretty nice guy. I am outspoken and lack tact maybe but I don't lie about people and I make it clear my opinions about people are just that, my opinion. I also don't allow some one I've never heard of trash me in a public forum. If you don't like my radio show no one is forcing you to listen. You were the one who started this and you didn't even have the testicular fortitude to do it to my face, you talk shit behind my back like a rodent nibbling on a crumb of toast in the shadows hoping no one could hear the sound of crunching bread.
 As far as you trying to instruct me on the words I am allowed to use or how I spend my time and on what, you can forget it. I don't know what caused you to believe you are an authority on anything or have it over anyone but it simply is not the case. The sooner you accept that fact the better for you because most people do not like strangers running up and ordering them around. I think I have done my best to show how ignorant you are about me Adam I have very little respect for men like you but I do have a healthy amount of pity because I think you are probably doomed as a slave to your need to be somebody. Allow me to close with a thank you (not so much heartfelt as an example of irony) for the attention. Your condemnation has failed miserably Adam I'll add the resulting pity to the pile.

Step Right Up

 

Step Right Up

  Adam Lee @daylightatheism on twitter is the latest A+ idiot to accuse me of being a misogynist.Want to know why? Because I called Stephanie Zvan a bitch. Yes I did and I will continue to do so until she either stops being a bitch or I start to forget to do so.
 Adam Lee seems to think he can tell me how to express myself, to the point where he will decide what words I will use.  I have a very disappointing fact to share with Adam Lee.  That's not gonna happen in a million fucking years. There is nothing Adam can do that will stop me from saying whatever I choose in any way I choose as often as I choose wherever the fuck I choose.
 I already went through this crap with that moronic PZ Myers over Stephanie Zvan now this twit suddenly figures he has nothing better to do than create a personality for me that gives him an enemy to fight. It also provides him with a counter argument to Al Stefanelli while debating the feminism issue. The only reason I make for a good example is because Adam made up the specifics to suit his needs. After reading Adam's facebook  page it looks like to me he wants to become famous. His about me is a collection of things he thinks make him look important or cool. It has always been my belief such a display is a result of low self esteem. Here is some of the exchange I had with Adam. Keep in mind originally he had a problem with my use of the word "bitch" then moved on to accuse me of approving of sex tapes made about women I don't like......

And then we have Adam and Al Stefanelli on twitter. Adam is clearly being an idiot. He sounds like a small child telling his mother about something a sibling has done wrong in order to get some attention.

Porn? Only To Adam Lee

The "sex tape" Adam is referring to is a gif of a dog trying to have sex with a cow as you can see here. I don't consider this porn and I never actually thought that cow was Stephanie Zvan or the dog Greg Laden. Obviously Adam Lee does think Stephanie Zvan is a cow. He is convinced I have proved myself a misogynist because I think it is funny to joke about making sex tapes of women I don't like. For the record I would joke about a man or a woman making sex tapes whether I liked them or not. I'm fair that way. But this isn't a sex tape it's a gif file of a dog attempting to gratify itself on a disinterested cow. I don't want to know what Adam Lee's collection of porn in his home looks like if this is an example of a sex tape to him.  

  Since Adam seemed so intent on dictating what terms I am allowed to use I figured I would take a look at his website and see exactly where this guy was coming from. The second post I read says this-

 Anyone who knows me, either in real life or through e-mail correspondence, should be well aware that I am a steadfast defender of freedom of speech. I consider it to be the most important right any democratic society can have; it is, in a sense, the right upon which all other rights depend. That is why I support only the minimum necessary restrictions on it, such as laws which ban harassment or incitation to criminal activity, and oppose all other restrictions on speech, however well-intentioned.  http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/comment-policy.htmlhttp://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/comment-policy.html

 

Really Adam? After reading that I can only assume Adam is full of shit any way you look at it. His whole displeasure of me calling Stephanie Zvan a bitch is just an attempt to win an argument and to get some needed attention drawn to himself. It's the only explanation that makes sense considering the weakness of his position. Adam go back to high school. You could learn a thing or two about maturity from those kids and while you are at it join the debating team you could use some instruction in that skill also. You are pathetic and inept.

 

Stephanie- The Queen Bitch Dick

Since there has been so much outcry among the FTB and A+ idiots about my calling Stephanie Zvan a bitch I am going to recant that statement. From this point on I will refer to Stephanie Zvan as a dick. Not dick as in penis, dick as in a huge jerk, a person who is unintelligent and annoying and treats other in a manner which is rude and/or condescending. In order to support my opinion I will offer the following statements from Stephanie Zvan..I mean dick

"Let’s put an end to this right now. It’s nice and all that you personally might think I’m handling this harassment well. Don’t ever fucking use me as your “proof” that someone else is doing it wrong."



"You are using me to make other harassed people feel and look worse. I did not ask for this. I will not stand for it. I would much rather adopt “bad” behavior myself than allow you to get away with that. I would rather stand in solidarity with them than judgment with you. Don’t make me do that.
Knock that shit off now."



"Don’t like the “personal” posts, the arguments between atheists? Go read something inspirational instead.
Consider yourself warned.
Justin, it’s time to knock this shit the fuck off.

I don’t care what you think about your opponent in an argument.

I don’t care what you think of Greg’s behavior, toward you or anyone else. You do not call harassment “an argument”. This is not argument."


 "Seriously, stop. You don’t have to like Greg. You don’t even have to acknowledge that you were begging for his forgiveness after you received the email you later called a threat. Just stop propping up people who are doing worse than he did to you because they’re doing it to him."

Regarding Justin Vacula and the SCA. Stephanie petitioned for Justin's removal. This is what first caused me to see Stephanie as a bitch (now upgraded to dick) Stephanie doesn't even live in PA and she has never met Justin. She acted on emotion and the need to bully pure and simple.
Stephanie writes-

 1. He has engaged in extreme behavior, including harassment, in opposing feminists within the secular movement which does not befit a leader and does not promote broad participation in the movement.


 2. He has, at the same time, minimized harassment as a problem within the movement and broader community.


 We believe it is inappropriate for such a representative to have unapologetically published on the site A Voice for Men, which describes itself: "AVfM regards feminists, manginas, white knights and other agents of misandry as a social malignancy. We do not consider them well intentioned or honest agents for their purported goals and extend to them no more courtesy or consideration than we would clansmen, skinheads, neo Nazis or other purveyors of hate." We further consider it inappropriate for Vacula to have used this site, monitored by the Southern Poverty Law Center, as a platform for attacking a fellow, feminist secularist.


 Not only has Vacula dismissed the harassment as unimportant, he has participated in it himself. He has participated very actively in the #FTBullies and #atheismplus campaigns, where anti-harassment and inclusion efforts are characterized as censorship, totalitarianism, dogmatism, group-think, and bullying (among the more polite terms). He has written blog posts on these topics that he promoted using those campaigns.


 He has been a regular commenter at what is now known as The Slyme Pit, a group dedicated to hatred of Rebecca Watson and anyone who is or is perceived to ally with her on matters of "radical" feminism. This group has produced threats requiring the attention of organizers of two different conferences and has been home to the cyberstalking Vacula defended as perfectly fine for "public figures". Vacula has participated in this group both before and after it was removed from National Geographic's ScienceBlogs website for violating nearly every provision of the site's code of conduct.


 In another, he reacted to the news that the #atheismplus campaign had triggered the chronic depression of Jennifer McCreight, causing her to stop her public activism. Jen is a blogger, speaker, and vice chair of the Secular Student Alliance board. Rather than noting that harassment that leads to results like this is bad for the movement he is trying to lead, he tweeted, "So, Jen’s allegedly finished blogging…and this time it’s not her boyfriend who kicked her off the internet." He did so using the #atheismplus tag, copying his contempt to the group that had been harassing McCreight.
Source-http://www.change.org/petitions/secular-coalition-for-america-remove-justin-vacula-from-a-leadership-position-in-the-pa-chapter-of-sca

She trashes Justin because he doesn't support feminism. One of Justin's blogs was posted on a men's rights website that isn't okay with Stephanie, I assume because she doesn't think men have rights. Stephanie also condemns Justin because he is a member of the Slymepit forum. She describes the forum as dedicated to hating Rebecca Watson which is a complete lie. She also claims the forum is responsible for threats. Stephanie couldn't prove any of this if her life depended on it. It is all bullshit. She then goes on to complain because Justin wasn't sad when Jen McCreight removed herself from blogging. News Flash- A collective sigh of relief went up when Jen said she was not going to blog anymore. Stephanie Zvan's  entire case against Justin Vacula was made up of honest mistakes by Justin, lies, emotion, and protecting her friends no matter what role they played in events. I know the mistakes made by Justin were not of malicious intent because I know Justin and I told him he needed to be more careful to not allow those things to happen again. Justin agreed and said those were not mistakes he would make in the future. Justin Vacula is an activist on line and in real life he is articulate and able to have a reasonable discussion without name calling and personal attacks. Many people see any criticism as a personal attack. Stephanie Zvan is one of those people. She is so stuck up she can't even see her own bias. She was just being vindictive towards Justin and that make her a bitch. Period.(at that time) In my opinion Stephanie is a bitch (now a dick) Anyone who wants to try and tell me I can't say so can suck it. This includes...

 

Ed Brayton the FTB owner and King Idiot

      You may be wondering why you haven't heard Ed's name from me before. That is because Ed really hasn't had much to do with the skepchick crap, PZ and his insane antics, or any of the other moronic loons telling lies and being self-righteous jerks on his little network. He owns Freethought blogs but I never held him responsible for what others were writing. He didn't seem to be very intelligent to allow something he had created be turned into a laughingstock but that was his business.

  It turns out that loudmouth Ed Brayton has fallen into and under control of PZ Myers. Ed yesterday publicly accused me of being sexist and claimed I called Stephanie Zvan a bitch (I did ) and a cunt ( I did not) He then went on to judge Al Sefanelli based on my alleged  behavior. I don't know why people like Ed Brayton insist on making others responsible for my actions but they really need to learn how the world works. Another lesson Ed and his merry band of morons would be better off knowing is how not to be a hypocrite. Over and over Freethought bloggers and A+ idiots have been crying and complaining about behavior they disapprove of when it is painfully easy to find public displays of them doing the same fucking things if not worse. PZ calling a volunteer up on stage only to treat her like a creepy drunk old man in a strip bar. "Hey honey if you wanna have some sex with me I ain't gonna stop ya" That is the same kinda shit PZ pulled on a stage, with an unsuspecting victim he hand picked. Or  complaining about Justin Vacula putting Surly Amy's address on the net (an accident) and then excusing Greg Laden for doing the same on purpose just because he was that hard up to try and get a win against superior wit. Let's not forget Surly Amy posting the link to Justin's posting on the net only making what she thought was bad, worse.  I hate to see what would happen if someone posted naked pics of Surly Amy on the net she would be posting the link all over the place and saying " Look at these naked pics of me. Some jerk has been posting them all over the net. Make sure you share this link so people know what a jerk that guy is. He is trying to allow everyone to see me naked OMFG!"

 It's this same story over and over. Canuck, acting like he knows anything about social interaction when it's obvious he is not capable of getting his thoughts across using the spoken word. At parties he must hand out a paper introducing himself so he doesn't get it all screwed up. When he tries to be part of a conversation he has to run to the printer and get a copy of his blogged reply when asked a question. Even then you can understand what the fuck he is trying to say only about 10% of the time.

  And that dick Stephanie Zvan bragging about being called a bitch and unfairly judging people. Stephanie is so oblivious to other people's perceptions of her it almost brings a tear to my eye. She writes about how no one is a challenge to her  superior intellect while she gets hers ass handed to her in the world outside of FTB. Stephanie just doesn't step out of the golden bubble she lives in, if she did she would be as embarrassed as we have been for her all this time. If ignorance is bliss Stephanie Zvan is multi-orgasmic, lucky her.

  I will give Ed credit for one point. Like I mentioned earlier I shouldn't have called Stephanie Zvan a bitch so now I consider her a dick. As it turns out Ed Brayton is the bitch in this sad display of rampant stupidity. I had made it a point up until now to mention that not all FTB bloggers were a part of this gang of idiots and I still believe  most are not falling into the abyss of hypocrisy and denial but Ed has made it clear what the position of FTB is so those people who disagree with his libelous declarations and his defending all the behavior that has caused such a deep divide among skeptics and atheists may want to find a new home for their blogs unless they don't mind being directly associated with the owner and his opinions.  Ed has made it clear he is not neutral in this, he sides with liars and narcissists, lunatics, and whiners. 

 If Ed thinks anyone on the side of truth and reason is going to give up and allow his gang of disinformation warriors run around unchecked he has been smoking too much weed. That is not going to happen. I will however take my gloves off. If he didn't like me before he knew me then he really isn't gonna like me as he gets to know me now that he has been talking shit about me in public. Ed you don't like me? I don't give a shit